T Nation

Nolv vs. Clomid

OK, I see people posting nolv as a PCT product. Why? As far as all the research I have seen, reputable research, nolv does NOT stim the LH to produce test, whereas clomid does. Nolv, from all my experiences, is to be used DURING a cycle, if needed. Did I miss some groundbreaking study in the past 10 years???

All I know is nolv is an anti-E, not a test producer. Alpha Male is better for LH output than nolv. Someone help me from stabbing myself with a 23g dart.

Doing a simple search on the actions of these two read SERMS would show that they produce similar results in regards to HPTA recovery.

You are full of misinformation and you need to do MUCH more research before spewing off ridiculous comments such as this.

Like ubi said - Nolva is a SERM (Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulator).

The term anti-e can be used to describe two different classes: Aromatase Inhibitors (AI’s) and SERM’s.

Read up on those two, and the answer will be clear as to why you should use Nolva, or Clomid, or other SERM’s like Toremifene for PCT.

Ubiquitous is the shit. I wished he would post here more often because, after me, he is one of the smartest sumbitches in the community.

If he says something - 99.9997% of the time, you can take it to the bank that he is right.

[quote]micromuscle wrote:
OK, I see people posting nolv as a PCT product. Why? As far as all the research I have seen, reputable research, nolv does NOT stim the LH to produce test, whereas clomid does. Nolv, from all my experiences, is to be used DURING a cycle, if needed. Did I miss some groundbreaking study in the past 10 years???

All I know is nolv is an anti-E, not a test producer. Alpha Male is better for LH output than nolv. Someone help me from stabbing myself with a 23g dart.[/quote]

And for some, Clomid can cause some unwanted female emotional problems in guys. Some also report shooting bigger loads. You can only try and see how your body responds.

I’ve actually done both, but I used nolv on cycle when needed or when I was doing d-bol or anadrol. Clomid I used post cycle for 2 weeks each time, and yes it had emotional sides for sure! Damn ubi, what I do works, so am I really full of misinformation???

I just kept seeing the posts, and some beginners being REALLY confused. I needed to know for myself, ya didn’t have to be a dick. Some may have knowledge, but without applying that knowledge, I could care less.

[quote]micromuscle wrote:
I’ve actually done both, but I used nolv on cycle when needed or when I was doing d-bol or anadrol. Clomid I used post cycle for 2 weeks each time, and yes it had emotional sides for sure! Damn ubi, what I do works, so am I really full of misinformation???

I just kept seeing the posts, and some beginners being REALLY confused. I needed to know for myself, ya didn’t have to be a dick. Some may have knowledge, but without applying that knowledge, I could care less.[/quote]

If you think that Nolva and clomid don’t perform the exact same function wrt estrogen - then yes, you are misinformed. That is why I told you to read.

[quote]InTheZone wrote:
It seems that more people definitely use Nolv during cycle,eh?
Isn’t it a bit more reliable as far as sides go also? They both seem comparable from what one can read here, but seems like less trouble with the Nolv. just my 1cent.
ToneBone[/quote]

You would be wrong. The only time a SERM’s should be usde during a cycle is when you have gyno.

Using Nolva during a cycle is just plain stupid.

Clomid has worse sides, but during a cycle, neither Clomid, nor Nolva should be used.

[quote]micromuscle wrote:
I’ve actually done both, but I used nolv on cycle when needed or when I was doing d-bol or anadrol. Clomid I used post cycle for 2 weeks each time, and yes it had emotional sides for sure! Damn ubi, what I do works, so am I really full of misinformation???

I just kept seeing the posts, and some beginners being REALLY confused. I needed to know for myself, ya didn’t have to be a dick. Some may have knowledge, but without applying that knowledge, I could care less.[/quote]

You use Nolvadex while on a cycle of Anadrol - kind of like playing russian rulette isn’t it!?

Anyway you are right as far as actual studies, but when one understands how a SERM works then one can apply the science to others. Thinking that Nolvadex does not work very similar is like thinking that 2+2=4 but 1+1+2 doesn’t - bad analagy but I hope you understand.

By the way, I prefer Clomid post cycle as the emotional issues aren’t noticable unless I think about it and actually just make me a more sensitive guy in a good way - and the only reason why I prefer the much weaker and more expensive Clomid over Nolvadex is because personally Nolvadex causes bad acne for me and really messes up my trigycleride levels and ultimately my entire blood lipid profile.

And even though progesterone sides are truly rare why risk it by using something that make progesterone receptors more sensitive(Nolvadex) to progestins(Anadrol)Seems pretty foolish to me; use an AI, Dopamine anataganist,etc but not a progesterone receptor up-regulator:

point being that it will offer no benefit over an AI only potential problems and fucked up triglycerides to go with your screwed up cholesterol -

I know that Nolvadex has a positive effect on cholesterol from acting as an estrogen in the liver, but it will not counter negative effects caused through other means than low estrogen at regular doses.

[quote]rainjack wrote:
You would be wrong. The only time a SERM’s should be usde during a cycle is when you have gyno.

Using Nolva during a cycle is just plain stupid.

Clomid has worse sides, but during a cycle, neither Clomid, nor Nolva should be used. [/quote]

Totally agree with you on this, and most things actually.

I get sick and tired of people recommending that a SERM is a good anti-estrogen measure and a “healthy” addition during a cycle, when my blood work and the latest science says no.

SERMS are for post cycle only unless one just wants to screw up their system more than they might be already. SERMS are toxic in themselves.

Ah geez. Just came across this article:
http://www.mesomorphosis.com/articles/potratz/pct-protocols.htm
Long story short: novaldex and clomid are both carcinogenic according to the author’s research. Not sure how much credence I will put into this, but something that people should be aware of I think.
There is actually talk of resveratrol, the main ingredient in Biotest’s REZ-V (of course the mesomorphosis site hawks another similiar product)in the article. It corroborates what T-Nationhas been saying about this substance.

You use Nolvadex while on a cycle of Anadrol - kind of like playing russian rulette isn’t it!?

Anadrol in itself, TO ME, is playing with fire, although I choose to do it. I said I have done nolv while on, but I only used it when NEEDED! If I felt tenderness in the nips, I’d start at 20 mgs./day, then lower after the sides deminished.

I understand the AI’s. I understand the whole thing. Man, I didn’t mean for this to get this deep, just wanted to clear up the usage on so many different threads. I hope you guys are getting the fact that I am saying what I do, and also understand that I’m not shooting 1000 mgs of test with a shitload of other product.

I really wanted pointed in the right direction, which usually is answered here from all of you. It just got a bit heated with some defensiveness, whether on my part or others, but I have always had my bloodwork done (thru the VA) and the only problem ever was cholesterol at 220, but HDL’s were 190. LDL’s were 30 and Tri’s were at just above 40. So even on cycle, my reports were favorable to me, but the damn VA sent me Zocor anyway (went in the trash!)

Again, I used nolv on cycle WHEN NEEDED! And clomid after, but when I first started years ago, there wasn’t an AI readily available to me, so I did what I had access to. Maybe I’m a creature of habit, but I still like the clomid post, with some nutriceuticals thrown in the mix.

Please remember here I am stating my opinions, and bloodwork, and overall feeling of well being, along with published research that led me in this direction. Hell, at least give me credit for not asking what ya think about Halodrol gel caps! Peace