T Nation

No Whey?


#1

I just read this article and thought someone might have an opinion about it... I'm not sure where I stand with it... Anyone?

No Whey, Jose!
By Mike Guadango

Whey protein has been the big post workout savior for a little bit now. It makes sense, itâ??s easily digestible and itâ??s low in fat. HOWEVER, itâ??s not the optimal post workout drink. The best solution for this problem is simply; Amino Acids.

Hereâ??s why:

Letâ??s start off with what whey is. Whey comes from milk. When milk protein is broken down it becomes two parts; whey and casein. Whey is fast acting, casein is slow.

Problems with milk:

Most cows are pumped full of hormones to produce milk at a faster rate than they normally would. Whatever is in your body is going to leave its imprint in whatever leaves your body; blood, urine, skin, hair, or in this case: milk. Same goes for the antibiotics theyâ??re treated with!

If milk is an important part of your lifestyle, best choices would be organic or raw milk. And if you like whey protein that much, then go with an organic whey protein.

Next is digestion:

Unlike carbohydrate metabolism, protein metabolism does not begin in the mouth, it begins in the stomach. Hydrochloric acid along with several enzymes must be present to break down protein. Other things also hinder the absorption rate of protein, such as pH level of the stomach, temperature of the protein, amount of mastication taken place prior to entry into the stomach, thereâ??s a lot of factors! If there is presence of any digestive inhibitors, then things get even more complicated. Protein absorption occurs in the small intestine where pancreatic enzymes are released to break them down into amino acids.

Post workout, this isnâ??t what we need.

The whole point of digesting proteins is to get the amino acids that are present in them. Why not just skip that step and make it that much easier to feed our bodies! Go strictly with amino acids and simple sugar (dextrose/maltodextrin) post workout.

Traditionally, the suggested 2:1 carbs:protein ratio is the way to go. However, some great studies have been released showing that the 4:1 ratio of carbs:protein is optimal for speedy absorption. In fact, itâ??s been noted to absorb almost as fast as water!

The only solution is simply buying Essential Amino Acids (EAAâ??s) and adding in your own sugar.


#2

if you have the cash to spare you could go with EAA's but i believe most people just go with whey bc of price/convenience


#3

Bunk article, wrong conclusions. Whey increases protein synthesis more than its equivalent in EAAs in a more affordable way.Taken pre-workout, amino acid levels rise throughout the workout, and peak after, giving the same effect as ingesting EAAs post-workout. Whey 60 minutes before a workout and 30 minutes after is plenty. Sugar also does nothing for post-workout protein synthesis, and isn't neccessary.

'For the past year, researchers have been going back and forth debating which was more anabolic?whey protein or essential Amino Acids (EAAs). A few months ago, it seemed that EAA was the winner; in a previous study, researchers administered either 15 grams of whey protein or 15 grams of EAA to elderly participants.

They found that ingestion of 15 grams of EAA more than doubles muscle protein balance in elderly persons when compared to that of the ingestion of 15 grams of whey, which would support a greater importance of the EAA (as opposed to whey) in improving muscle protein synthesis in elderly persons. EAA seemed like the more anabolic supplement, but the researchers went back and examined the data and found that 15 grams of whey protein contained only 7 grams of EAA! So, the study did not have the exact same EAA mix for whey protein compared to the EAA mix (7 grams of EAA found in whey compared to 15 grams of EAA).

The same research group went back and administered a dose-to-dose comparison and administered 15 grams of whey, which contains roughly 7 grams of EAA and compared it to an equivalent EAA dose (~6.72 grams of EAA). To the researchers? surprise, whey protein resulted in greater anabolic effects than EAA when compared dose per dose. The study reported that EAAs are not solely responsible for the anabolic properties of whey protein.

The researchers concluded that whey protein (whole consumption) is greater than the sum of its parts (EAA), or effects beyond that of just the amino acid content. So what ingredient in whey protein could be enhancing anabolic actions? It is interesting that the two dosages each had the exact same dosage of leucine, so there was something else in whey protein causing the greater anabolic effect. The researchers hypothesized that the increase in the plasma concentration of the amino acid cysteine from whey protein, which has previously been found to augment muscle protein anabolism, may have enhanced muscle protein synthesis.

Whey protein resulted in a greater insulin response than EAA, which also could have augmented the anabolic actions of whey protein. The researchers explained that whey protein is a potent stimulator of Gastric Inhibitory Polypeptide (GIP), also known as the glucose-dependent insulinotropic peptide. It is now believed that the function of GIP is to induce insulin secretion. Relative to that, it is known that whey protein is a strong stimulator of GIP secretagogue, possibly through bioactive peptides present in whey or formed during its digestion, and that the plasma GIP concentration is greater after ingestion of intact protein than a similar amount of protein in the form of free Amino Acids.

The researchers also commented that whey protein is inexpensive and also has additional health benefits that can?t be found in EAA. For example, cysteine-supported glutathione synthesis is implicated in protection against oxidative stress, whereas beta-lactoglobulin and alpha-lactalbumin are major whey proteins modulating immune function. The researchers concluded that the anabolic actions of whey go beyond just EAAs and the whole (whey protein) are greater than the sum of parts (EAA).

Key Points:

On a dose-per-dose base, whey protein was more anabolic than EAA.
Whey protein resulted in a greater insulin response than EAA, possibly through increases in GIP.
Cysteine found in whey has anabolic actions not found in EAA.? Whey has potent immune-stimulating properties not found in EAA.

Christos S. Katsanos, David L. Chinkes, Douglas Paddon-Jones, Xiao-jun Zhang, Asle Aarsland, Robert R. Wolfe. Whey protein ingestion in elderly persons results in greater muscle protein accrual than ingestion of its constituent essential amino acid content. Volume 28, 2008. Pages 651-65.'


#4

I've read other stuff from him crediting protein synthesis to caloric value of whey. He said simply adding dextrose secretes insulin which ups protein synthesis.


#5

He's also against dairy, so that may explain the bias...


#6

Good quality protein powders have the Branched chain amino acids in them. It would never hurt to have some extra bcca's though. As far as your entire post.... just drink some Biotest protein, take your bcaa's, get some Superfood in there somewhere and lift some heavy weight.....


#7

EAAs >>>> Whey

I use 0 whey, my body comp has improved so much getting rid of those extra cals.


#8

i take it you prefer EAA's over BCAA's?


#9

NO WAY!


#10

There is, of course, a factor with the quality of whey you take in and the ammount, quality becoming more of a factor the more you take in.


#11

I'm kinda w/ AustinBicep...whey makes me feel bloated, and hold water I feel like.

Still, I have like 15 pounds of it, and it aint going anywhere so I use it for Post-WO only.


#12

i actually cut whey out and I've felt so much better post workout. No more bloat... Guess he was right


#13

Wouldn't the type of whey be an important factor here? I'm talking concentrate vs. isolate vs. hydrolysate.

I've never had a problem with bloat with isolate or hydrolysate. Whey concentrate is a fucking hot mess though.


#14

No problem with any kind of whey. I do believe we get better quality whey over here than you do in the states though, unless you buy from quality suppliers. The few tubs I've bought from the states have been..iffy.


#15

.... muscle and fitness did a write up on this awhie ago, and came to the conclusion that you will get more muscle growth from supplementing with a high quality protien period. recovery time is increased you get your BCAA's ect. all around better.. if extra calories and bloating (aka water retention) is your problem, then use an isolate with water that's what i do when i'm cutting as opposed to Bulking. For bulk Optimum Nutrition Pro Complex is the best (in my opinion) coming in second would be O.N. Hydro Builder and for isolates i think Isopure has it on lock.

X3no


#16

xxxx 7 with this point. quality is key. all the cheap and shittier quality wheys like 6 star protein at walmart is ALL concentrate while you have O.N which is part iso/hydro and Biotest's Surge Recovery with a hydrolysate. i actually can have my whey/casein PWO mix with vanilla almond milk and im hungry a half hr later with no bloat at all.


#17

You don't think they may be a BIT biased considering who advertises in their magazine?