T Nation

No Waterboarding, Your Child Dies


#1

If your child or someone very close to you died in a terrorist attack, and you then found out that authorities COULD have figured out the plot, but had to be nice to the scum, would you be pissed? Should your wife die because Khalid Sheik Muhammed might be a little uncomfortable?


#2

get out of here with this shit already.


#3

Who’s that clippity clopping over my bridge??


#4

^^^ Being against ‘torture’ is “O-so-wonderful!” when its abstract and far away. But when the subject is put on your doorstep, what do you do?


#5

I kill my dinner.

With karate.


#6

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
If your child or someone very close to you died in a terrorist attack, and you then found out that authorities COULD have figured out the plot, but had to be nice to the scum, would you be pissed? Should your wife die because Khalid Sheik Muhammed might be a little uncomfortable?

[/quote]

Moronic. You’re not smart enough to see that?:

  1. The ticking time bomb scenario is essentially a Hollywood myth.

  2. There is a world of difference between what one person may do in extremis and a governmental policy of torturing captured enemies. IF (huge if) some heroic rogue CIA agent tortured an enemy who then revealed a plot days away from completion that would detonate a dirty bomb in Manhattan and kill hundreds of thousands, I’m pretty sure almost everyone would be OK with the president pardoning that man.

That is light years away from the government illegally deciding to torture captured enemy combatants whenever it likes. Its legal definition of an enemy combatant, incidentally, could include you.

If you can’t figure those two things out, I can’t help you.


#7

technically…our soldiers are considered possible terrorists…

maybe we should waterboard them too to find out what they know.


#8

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
^^^ Being against ‘torture’ is “O-so-wonderful!” when its abstract and far away. But when the subject is put on your doorstep, what do you do?[/quote]

Hey, rage boy has got a new set of teeth in your picture. Thats nice, and oh, so american.


#9

I think that every shopping mall in the USA should have a waterboarding kiosk.

BG


#10

If your child was killed by a legal gunman, and his death could have been prevented if only the government had just taken away everyone’s guns, would you be pissed?

Hmmm? Would ya?


#11

Really people. We are talking about torturing enemy combantants. I can’t beleive what a bunch of illogical pussies we have become. This is absolutly insane. It one thing to abide by mutually agreed upon conduct of war, but that’s not what we are dealing with here. Grow a fucking sack.


#12

[quote]Beowolf wrote:
If your child was killed by a legal gunman, and his death could have been prevented if only the government had just taken away everyone’s guns, would you be pissed?

Hmmm? Would ya?[/quote]

Hmmm…were we talking about torturing anyone that has something in common with an enemy combatant, or just those that actually are?

seriously dude…


#13

[quote]dhickey wrote:
Beowolf wrote:
If your child was killed by a legal gunman, and his death could have been prevented if only the government had just taken away everyone’s guns, would you be pissed?

Hmmm? Would ya?

Hmmm…were we talking about torturing anyone that has something in common with an enemy combatant, or just those that actually are?

seriously dude…[/quote]

If you actually knew how moronic the military members who work in intelligence are you would not agree to let anyone be waterboarded. Trust me on this.


#14

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:

If you actually knew how moronic the military members who work in intelligence are you would not agree to let anyone be waterboarded. Trust me on this.

[/quote]

This very well may be true. My arguement is that if it works, we should use it. If someone wants to argue that it doesn’t work and that we have a bunch of sick sadistic fucks that get a hard on torturing people, that’s fine. But that’s not the arugument anyone is presenting. Not intellegently anyway. Think there were two posts in very long thread that even referensed this possibility.


#15

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.


#16

[quote]dhickey wrote:
Really people. We are talking about torturing enemy combantants. I can’t beleive what a bunch of illogical pussies we have become. This is absolutly insane. It one thing to abide by mutually agreed upon conduct of war, but that’s not what we are dealing with here. Grow a fucking sack.[/quote]

I would not trust any government with a sharp object, a lighter, or…

Let´s just say, if I would not allow a 4 year old to do it in my name neither can they.


#17

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.


#18

[quote]dhickey wrote:
This very well may be true. My arguement is that if it works, we should use it. [/quote]

Terrorism does work.


#19

[quote]orion wrote:
dhickey wrote:
Really people. We are talking about torturing enemy combantants. I can’t beleive what a bunch of illogical pussies we have become. This is absolutly insane. It one thing to abide by mutually agreed upon conduct of war, but that’s not what we are dealing with here. Grow a fucking sack.

I would not trust any government with a sharp object, a lighter, or…

Let�´s just say, if I would not allow a 4 year old to do it in my name neither can they.

[/quote]

In general, I completely agree. But when it comes to defense, they are our only option. I don’t know how this could be any more clear.

Let me just reiterate. If any kind of torture works and saves lives, why on earth would we not persue this against terrorists that don’t work within the COMPLETELY ARBITRARY moral code some would hope to handcuff us with?

We are talking about a specific tactic that could be used to deal with the situation we find ourselves in. Not how we got here, how we may have fucked up in the past, or why those that want to kill us are pissed off. I don’t know, the brain trust on this forum just can’t wrap their heads around the actual issue at hand. It’s getting rather frustrating, becuase some that have proven themselves very intellegent and capable of logical thought seem to be missing the point on this one. I am used to ignoring idiots on this board, its the intellegent contributors that have me a bit baffled right now.


#20

[quote]lixy wrote:
dhickey wrote:
This very well may be true. My arguement is that if it works, we should use it.

Terrorism does work.[/quote]

Do you actually have something to contribute here? Are you saying terrorizing terrorists works? I am not following.