T Nation

No Suicide For You!


If you want let us take care of it:


Death Investigation.

On May 4, 2008 at about 2:43 am, Saint Paul Police Officers and Fire Paramedics responded to the 300 block of Wheelock Parkway on a Suicide in progress involving a controlled substance call. Upon their arrival, officers were confronted by a partially clothed 21 year old male. As officers attempted to calm and control the suspect so he could be evaluated by paramedics, the male attacked both officers.

After a short struggle the officers deployed chemical aerosol irritant which had no effect on the suspect and he proceeded to bite both of them. The suspect continued to fight the officers and additional assistance was requested from officer specially trained in the deployment of the Tazer device.

Officers continued attempts to control the suspect were unsuccessful and the Tazer was deployed. The male continued to fight, but officer were able to restrain him. At this time the suspect became unresponsive and Saint Paul Fire Paramedics, who were on scene, began treating him. The suspect was moved to the Paramedic rig for further treatment but did not survive.

Both injured officers were treated at Regions Hospital and released.

This case is in the early stages of the investigation and detectives from the Crimes Against Persons unit are gathering evidence and interviewing witnesses.


Suicide by cop (police assisted suicide) is not at all uncommon.


Should they have shot him like a rabid animal?


They should have just let him be in the first place. If he wanted to die it is his business not the city of St. Paul's.


"Upon their arrival, officers were confronted by a partially clothed 21 year old male. As officers attempted to calm and control the suspect so he could be evaluated by paramedics, the male attacked both officers."

We don't know what precipitated the call.


I second the right to kill yourself.

While I can understand that doctors, who swore an oath to save lives, have a hard time letting a patient die, but police officers storming a flat because of "SIP" is simply outrageous.

Every discussion about freedom is absurd if you cannot even choose to end your life.


Where did you get "storming the flat"? If the guy wanted to quietly do himself in with a controlled substance, who would be the wiser? Something happened to precipitate the 911 call. The article didn't address that. We don't have the whole picture.


This is stupid, you can't blame the cops for this IMO. If you can't even kill yourself without fucking up then you truly are worthless. Nobody can stop you from killing yourself. Bash the police for this? Imagine the reaction if the police would have just stood there and watched while he killed himself.


If nobody can stop one from killing his or her self then why the intervention by the cops? Why murder a citizen in the name of protection?

They should have not even shown up.

"To protect and serve," my ass.


He could have easily killed himself without the cops attention. I agree that if you want to kill yourself you should be able. But just cuz you want to kill yourself, it doesnt mean you can attack an officer. And technically he did die, so he kinda achieved his goal anyways. If the police get a call, what are they supposed to do? not show up?

Right......seriously imagine the outrage if they didnt show up, or if they did show up and just grabbed a bag of popcorn to watch the show.


Before officers carried tasers there would have been a long drawn out talk with this gentleman to calm him down and take him to a hospital. There is no doubt in my mind that they provoked him (they knew he was unarmed) into an attack so that they could tase him and thus go home after an easy apprehension.

Cops are lazy, they want to do the least work necessary like anyone else. Tasers make this possible.

The police are supposed to serve the public. The person who made the call was probably distressed and wanted to save this individual's life. The cops FAILED this tax paying citizen and there will be no recourse.


It's clear that you have no respect for the police, and that is fine (it's your opinion)
But you should know that there are many hardworking, honest, caring police officers out there. I don't know about the provoking by the police officers, but whatever, just keep rocking out to your "Fuck tha Police" and "Cop Killa" cd's.


I do not respect any State employed, uniformed authority. Fuck the State that writes armed thugs a paycheck as far as I am concerned.


What would you use instead?


Privately employed persons whom I can hire and fire when I deem necessary and appropriate.

I believe the success of liberty depends entirely on the privatization of every facet of social cooperation and the abolition of government.


That would be this situation.

[i]Brittany Zimmermann called 911, but no one came
Police not sent in response to victim's plea for help

Jason Shepard on Thursday 05/01/2008

Madison police believe Brittany Zimmermann called 911 before she was stabbed and beaten to death inside her Doty Street apartment, but the 911 Center failed to send help after erroneously concluding the call was a mistake.

The 21-year-old UW-Madison student's body, with multiple stab wounds to the chest and blunt force trauma to the head, was discovered at 1:08 p.m. on April 2 by Zimmermann's fiancé. The scene was such a mess that he initially believed Zimmermann had been shot. [/i]


When seconds counts, police are only minutes away, or sometimes not at all. If Brittany had a gun, she might still be alive. If the victim in the original post had one, he might have been dead sooner. But that's the risk with taking personal responsibility for your own safety.


Because selling the railways and buses in NZ did wonders for our public transport.


That theory does NOT work for everything. But I sort of agree, making the police force private could (in theory) help things move along.


Privatizing transportation requires a viable customer base. If rails fail in the private sector then they have no place in the public sector -- this is the efficiency of a market correction. I suspect that publicly funded roads were too much competition for privately owned rails.

If roads were privatized I suspect that the results would have been different as both means would have competed to bring consumers into the market.

I disagree. Privatization works for everything.


People stopped using our public transport the moment it became private. Before that you wouldn't give a second thought to hopping in the bus. Because the new privately owned companies have the monopoly, it's cheaper to run your own car and get from A to B. Parking costs included.

Another example is our government selling the telecommunications network. We pay outrageous prices for the slowest internet. Only in the last 2 years has over 512kbps become a mainstream speed. The highest available on what was previously a government owned corporation is 10mbps with 512kbps upstream. Doesn't even compare to what other countries get.


Certain things aren't the police's responsibility.

The police jurisdiction should be far more limited in my opinion.

Perhaps a number of other social organizations should emerge.

But to send men armed with guns and whose primary purpose is to maintain government control, maintain social order and fight crime, shouldn't be responsible for keeping someone from killing themselves.

In Catholic countries, shit like this was handled by religious police, called Accion Catolica, they did all sorts of stuff, like make sure some bum ass dude was working and feeding his kids, or some loser didn't kill himself.

After Vatican II they dissappeared but...you have to admit, SOME kind of organization like that is needed.

I remember my neighbor had some wierd ass retarded daughter and she 'didn' take her meds' and was arguing psychotically with the mom in the front yard.

The Mom called the police and there was this game of like 'Tag, you're it,' that happened in the front yard. Between her in the police, they surrounded her, and we're saying like 'NOW ALICIA, YOU NEED TO TAKE YOUR MEDS.'

I remember watching this and thinking...how is this the police's responsibility?