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No Squat, No Bench 531?


#1


Has anyone ever done a template where only two exercises are done twice a week?

I have issues when squatting and bench pressing and simply am not really that interested in doing them, due to getting sick of hurting myself when I try them, not being particularly excited about doing them and would rather be doing stuff I enjoy.
I on the other hand, love pressing weight overhead, which gives me none of the shoulder pain bench pressing does. I also love deadlifting, picking heavy shit up off the ground is enjoyable and after a few weeks of practising I never experienced bad pain from it.

Jim often gives the advice for people only to do stuff they are going to stick to, something they are passionate about. I think the 531 template offer a great progression scheme and it also allows me to program other movements I love as accessory movements to assist the main lifts.

How would something like this look?


#2

Have you thought of doing Front squats instead of squats. I know some people have switched from squats to FS, when they can’t do back squats with safety (serious spine injury for ex.).


#3

[quote]Rattus wrote:
Have you thought of doing Front squats instead of squats. I know some people have switched from squats to FS, when they can’t do back squats with safety (serious spine injury for ex.).[/quote]

Any squatting motion is not something I really feel comfortable doing. I feel like it isn’t worth the risk doing something which I don’t have to do, which makes me feel bad a lot of the time, when I could just not do them.

Plus I always felt I saw better results from deadlifting anyway, I love doing deadlifts with a snatch grip for my posterior chain, aswell as kettlebell swings, obviously conventional too.

Same with the press, I always felt it was a far more beneficial exercise even when I could bench.


#4

I assume this template is to be done for 6 week cycle? It is very limited and you can and must do better.


#5

[quote]Musashi92 wrote:

[quote]Rattus wrote:
Have you thought of doing Front squats instead of squats. I know some people have switched from squats to FS, when they can’t do back squats with safety (serious spine injury for ex.).[/quote]

Any squatting motion is not something I really feel comfortable doing. I feel like it isn’t worth the risk doing something which I don’t have to do, which makes me feel bad a lot of the time, when I could just not do them.

Plus I always felt I saw better results from deadlifting anyway, I love doing deadlifts with a snatch grip for my posterior chain, aswell as kettlebell swings, obviously conventional too.

Same with the press, I always felt it was a far more beneficial exercise even when I could bench.

[/quote]

Beneficial for what? If you’re in some sports, do whatever helps most. If you’re just training for size and strength it is not so picky, there is many big multi-joint movements which make you both.

I would say stick with the basic principle: 1)pull, 2)push, 3)squat.

  1. Pulling work you’ll get in with DL and rows.

  2. OH-press is the pushing movement, there are many individuals who almost never bench and are really big and strong. There is at least one 5/3/1-template without bench also.

  3. For squat movement: do whatever you can. If you really can’t squat traditionally (even with proper form and mobility), do even single leg squats (lunges?) or body weight squats.

Just be honest with the movement selection you choose. I’m a shitty bencher and don’t really enjoy benching. I do it anyway, because the benefits of benching are clear. I also pull conventional, thought my sumo is stronger, because the conv. dl. has better carryover to overall strenght.


#6

[quote]Jim Wendler wrote:
I assume this template is to be done for 6 week cycle? It is very limited and you can and must do better.

[/quote]

I was planning on running any program I start for the foreseeable future, one of the reasons the 531 template seemed so good to me, i like the idea of getting stronger by setting rep and weight goals steadily. Plus I can do hard conditioning with it without ruining conditioning as long as I plan it the right way.

the cycle would be the same length as a regular one, with the last of the four being a deload.

Why would running the program without squatting or benching be so inferior? Heavy pressing overhead twice a week and pulling twice a week with lots of rowing seems like a great way to program for general strength and fitness.

My conditioning would be hill sprints, runs, jump training etc after the 531 workouts.


#7

How are you hurting yourself when you squat and bench?


#8

[quote]JoeyWaters wrote:
How are you hurting yourself when you squat and bench? [/quote]

The bench aggravates my shoulder impingement, it is pain free until I start benching and then it becomes incredibly painful, inflamed and starts making horrible cracking and crunching sounds.

I have tried to bench elbows tucked, elbows flared, I always experience some kind of problem.

Squatting is a problem due to multiple factors, many stem from knee problems from being hit by a car many years ago, they get sore when squatting, right underneath the kneecap.

The shoulder impingement can also be a problem when squatting low bar and high bar is out of the question because of piss poor flexibility. I have been working on my mobility and maybe when it is better I will feel comfortable squatting but before then it always ends up with me either hurting my knees, shoulder or mobility issues leads to form breakdown and injury.


#9

Gotcha. Have you tried floor press and box squatting?


#10

[quote]JoeyWaters wrote:
Gotcha. Have you tried floor press and box squatting?[/quote]

I work out in commercial gyms so I only have utility benches to box squat onto. I have tried it before and to be honest it didn’t really make me much of a fan.

As for floor presses I doubt they would be allowed at my planet fitness type gym and I don’t see what they could do for me that overhread pressing and pressups won’t do. I also think it would probably still hurt my shoulder.


#11

You’ve had three (3) people, one of which is the actual author of the Program, respond that you, in a nutshell, kinda sorta need to do more. So, methinks it useful to perhaps consider their advice rather than respond again how you feel otherwise.


#12

[quote]jjcrugby wrote:
You’ve had three (3) people, one of which is the actual author of the Program, respond that you, in a nutshell, kinda sorta need to do more. So, methinks it useful to perhaps consider their advice rather than respond again how you feel otherwise.[/quote]

I am asking why I need to, not that they are wrong. As I have stated I have shoulder and knee issues that make bench pressing and squatting problematic.

If I physically can’t bench or press without getting hurt or at least experiencing really bad pain, would it not make sense to ask why I need to do those exercises and weigh up if it is worth doing it and continually getting injured?


#13

Obviously you know your problems better than anyone, but…

Maybe try close-grip declines. I fucked up my shoulder a while back and light cg declines were about the only pressing movement that didn’t hurt, maybe worth a shot? Vertical pressing is great but there’s much to be gained working the horizontal plane.

YouTube some myofascial release (w/e) exercises for knees. My orthro turned me onto them from knee pain I was experiencing due to rolled-in ankles. That, plus squatting wider and in sweatpants (soon to be knee sleves) worked wonders.


#14

If you:

  • lay on your back on the ground,
  • lift your ass in the air, hip thruster style
  • place your elbows by your side on the ground
  • bend your elbows at 90 degrees - so your palms are now under your lpwer back, facing down
  • and you slowly lower your ass back to the ground so your lower back is pressing down on your forearms

Are you able to keep your shoulders pinned back or does it/do they roll forward?


#15

Like everybody here says:

Don’t do these movements if it hurts. But don’t give up either. These issues may be helped, or even cured, with different methods. You should try fix the problems. Otherwise they may even get worse and start to harm also your OH and DL.


#16

Without the bench and squat you’re not doing 5 3 1.

Couple of thoughts. Work on those problems if you can. Instead of doing a strength program try doing a month of corrective work to see of it helps out.

I imagine that you won’t be able to deadlier twice a week with that much volume for long of you’re using any sort of appreciable weight.

James


#17

I have decided to do the following.

  1. Do the main four exercises as best I can
  2. Spend an hour every night dedicated to mobility work to address specific problem areas
  3. Spend an hour every night stretching for general flexibility
  4. Start the program very light, so light that I don’t have to worry at all about anything but form for the first few cycles

#18

You don’t need to spend two hours each night on mobility, even if you have issues.


#19

[quote]tsantos wrote:
You don’t need to spend two hours each night on mobility, even if you have issues. [/quote]

I would like to prioritise flexibility as one of my goals. And only one hour is stretching, the other is rehab for my shoulder and knees.


#20

I did some benching at the gym this morning using a close grip. My pinkies shoulder width.

No where near as bad as my usual setup. Bit of a niggling tinge in the shoulder but overall shouldn’t be too much of a worry.