T Nation

No Recent Bench Pressing

[quote]ZeusNathan wrote:
Avocado wrote:
Same here. I’ve benched twice in the last 3 years or so. I still have a 275 close grip with my max ever being 300 close grip (only ever did close grip for athletic purposes then realized dips were better).

Now I only do o-lifts (and their accessory lifts), squats and pullups.

I also have a crusade against barbell bench for anyone other than powerlifters. I just do not see it as being worth a shit to anyone in sports beside football O-line and D-line. There are less shoulder destroying lifts that can have those sets and make a client (or me) better at sports.

As far as training for chest size goes there are tons of better lifts that help people actually get work out of their chest as opposed to arms.

So yeah. learning to lever yourself for dips is much funner anyhow.

-chris

tell me about it. i just started benching and my right rotator cuff is acting up already. btw, i do 2 - 3 sets of external rotations and 12 reps with the bar to warm up, and still there is discomfort. i personally prefer the dumbbells.

[/quote]

For this exact reason I would say that you can leave the bench out of your life for the rest of your life unless you are going to be in a benching comp. It doesn’t make half sense to do something that is only going to spoil other lifts for you. Like i said before the cost to benefit ratio must be positive on the side of benefit for it to be worth while. I’d say an existing shoulder agitation/injury makes it almost impossible to come out positive on the benefit side.

So just use things like DB movements and weighted push ups (with some shipping chain on your back I think this is one of the best pec developers ever. more so if you have hand “sliders” or loose DB’s that roll your hands together as you press.). I have never had any shoulder pain or reports from clients of shoulder pain doing chest movements other than bench. It just seems to be the odd guy out.

In other news the best rotator cuff pre/rehabilitation movement ever has to be the “wind mill” with just a 5kg plate or so. this really gets your R-cuffs warm and strong as the plate or DB or KB goes up in weight. I had no idea how much better this movement was than the usual external rotation movements until it was Rx’ed by a fellow trainer. Evers ince I have just done the windmill unless someone cannot seem to get the movement down due to flexibility/back issues.

-chris

[quote]conwict wrote:
Yeah, I should have specified…I meant strength as in a measure of overall physical strength, vs neural specificity on specific exercises. If that makes sense.[/quote]

Oh yeah I got you the first time. I was just using your post as a departure point or expanding on it as it were. We all know what your talking about. everyone has taken a week off and seen what portion of their strength is neurally based.

-chris

Can you develop a muscle imbalance from cutting out the BP and just doing pulling movements?

[quote]Avocado wrote:
ZeusNathan wrote:
Avocado wrote:
Same here. I’ve benched twice in the last 3 years or so. I still have a 275 close grip with my max ever being 300 close grip (only ever did close grip for athletic purposes then realized dips were better).

Now I only do o-lifts (and their accessory lifts), squats and pullups.

I also have a crusade against barbell bench for anyone other than powerlifters. I just do not see it as being worth a shit to anyone in sports beside football O-line and D-line. There are less shoulder destroying lifts that can have those sets and make a client (or me) better at sports.

As far as training for chest size goes there are tons of better lifts that help people actually get work out of their chest as opposed to arms.

So yeah. learning to lever yourself for dips is much funner anyhow.

-chris

tell me about it. i just started benching and my right rotator cuff is acting up already. btw, i do 2 - 3 sets of external rotations and 12 reps with the bar to warm up, and still there is discomfort. i personally prefer the dumbbells.

For this exact reason I would say that you can leave the bench out of your life for the rest of your life unless you are going to be in a benching comp. It doesn’t make half sense to do something that is only going to spoil other lifts for you. Like i said before the cost to benefit ratio must be positive on the side of benefit for it to be worth while. I’d say an existing shoulder agitation/injury makes it almost impossible to come out positive on the benefit side.

So just use things like DB movements and weighted push ups (with some shipping chain on your back I think this is one of the best pec developers ever. more so if you have hand “sliders” or loose DB’s that roll your hands together as you press.). I have never had any shoulder pain or reports from clients of shoulder pain doing chest movements other than bench. It just seems to be the odd guy out.

In other news the best rotator cuff pre/rehabilitation movement ever has to be the “wind mill” with just a 5kg plate or so. this really gets your R-cuffs warm and strong as the plate or DB or KB goes up in weight. I had no idea how much better this movement was than the usual external rotation movements until it was Rx’ed by a fellow trainer. Evers ince I have just done the windmill unless someone cannot seem to get the movement down due to flexibility/back issues.

-chris[/quote]

windmill… is that when you grab a 5 - 10lbs plate and swing your arms like your doing back strokes in the pool?

[quote]tw0scoops2 wrote:
Can you develop a muscle imbalance from cutting out the BP and just doing pulling movements?[/quote]

i would say so, i but i see it as being a less of a problem then if you were to work all chest and no back. my shoulders and upper back felt good during my pull only phase. but now that ive started benching, my shoulders are a cause for concern… slight clicking and pain/discomfort at the glenohumeral joint.

i think my shoulder ‘problems’ have started ever since 185lbs on the bb.

[quote]ZeusNathan wrote:
Avocado wrote:
ZeusNathan wrote:
Avocado wrote:
Same here. I’ve benched twice in the last 3 years or so. I still have a 275 close grip with my max ever being 300 close grip (only ever did close grip for athletic purposes then realized dips were better).

Now I only do o-lifts (and their accessory lifts), squats and pullups.

I also have a crusade against barbell bench for anyone other than powerlifters. I just do not see it as being worth a shit to anyone in sports beside football O-line and D-line. There are less shoulder destroying lifts that can have those sets and make a client (or me) better at sports.

As far as training for chest size goes there are tons of better lifts that help people actually get work out of their chest as opposed to arms.

So yeah. learning to lever yourself for dips is much funner anyhow.

-chris

tell me about it. i just started benching and my right rotator cuff is acting up already. btw, i do 2 - 3 sets of external rotations and 12 reps with the bar to warm up, and still there is discomfort. i personally prefer the dumbbells.

For this exact reason I would say that you can leave the bench out of your life for the rest of your life unless you are going to be in a benching comp. It doesn’t make half sense to do something that is only going to spoil other lifts for you. Like i said before the cost to benefit ratio must be positive on the side of benefit for it to be worth while. I’d say an existing shoulder agitation/injury makes it almost impossible to come out positive on the benefit side.

So just use things like DB movements and weighted push ups (with some shipping chain on your back I think this is one of the best pec developers ever. more so if you have hand “sliders” or loose DB’s that roll your hands together as you press.). I have never had any shoulder pain or reports from clients of shoulder pain doing chest movements other than bench. It just seems to be the odd guy out.

In other news the best rotator cuff pre/rehabilitation movement ever has to be the “wind mill” with just a 5kg plate or so. this really gets your R-cuffs warm and strong as the plate or DB or KB goes up in weight. I had no idea how much better this movement was than the usual external rotation movements until it was Rx’ed by a fellow trainer. Evers ince I have just done the windmill unless someone cannot seem to get the movement down due to flexibility/back issues.

-chris

windmill… is that when you grab a 5 - 10lbs plate and swing your arms like your doing back strokes in the pool? [/quote]

nope. It’s kind of like what this asshole is doing:

except that as you go down you rotate the plate (in place of the KB) as far around as you can and then rotate it back as you come up as far the other way. You do this by roatating your thumb that grabs the plate in a counter clockwise motion on the way down and the reverse on the way up. Always be looking at your hand for this one.

In the clip you can only see a slight rotation of the kettlebell but I use a nice full rotation with just a little weight. keep your “down” arm running along your knee, unlike the ass hole in the vid. 1/2 the time his arm comes off his knee.

So in this sense you are actually “rotating” your shoulder as you press the weight. you will find it’s a real good warm up move because it is very full body and it really gets those shoulders into shape regarding flexibility and stability as well. I find my shoulders often dont go far behind my ears enough on jerks so this movement is important to me for making sure that my shoulders are mobile enough.

Try it out it’s mucho fun. If you are doing the full arm rotation version don’t use too much weight. But add weight to the regular version and it makes a great full body lift.

-chris

[quote]ZeusNathan wrote:
when i used to lift in high school, the bench press was by far the most popular exercise, next to curls. people formed lines waiting for their chance to get under the bar. but now, 5 years later, my favorite has become my least favorite.

so since october of last year to febrauary of 08, my workouts consisted mainly of only two exercises. pull ups and deadlifts.
i benched maybe twice in each of those months and it only consisted of 2 sets every time.

my bench max in october was about 185lbs.
currently it is 245lbs, tested last week. so simply put, ive put on 60lbs onto my bench press hardly ever working chest!

in the words of penn & teller, is this bullshit?[/quote]

Thats amazing dude

still no benching but still getting stronger

245lbs for 3 reps

Bench being a compound movement, you’re probably correcting imbalances by working on your back. If you’re working the chest, shoulders, triceps, and upper back with other exercises, I’d expect to continue to see bench press strength increases. If you’ve cut chest completely, I’d expect you to plateau.

Ok so let me get this right

currently my personal best on bench is 135kg for one rep, that i just achieved last friday

my personal best for chin up is a bw of 107 +15kg x2, and personal best for bent over row is 102.5kg x5

that means i have an imbalance? i’ll be honest i dont think i can at the moment safely go much heavier on my bent over row, also with chin up’s i weigh less now than when i did that(around xmas last year)

[quote]Lurker27 wrote:
Bench being a compound movement, you’re probably correcting imbalances by working on your back.

im sorry can you clarify this one…

If you’re working the chest, shoulders, triceps, and upper back with other exercises, I’d expect to continue to see bench press strength increases. If you’ve cut chest completely, I’d expect you to plateau.

my workout consist mainly of deads and pull ups. maybe shoulders once a week or so. i bench once every 2 - 3 weeks or so to check my strength. my bench hasn’t staggered yet. it just seems crazy weird to me.

[/quote]

No offense, but why is this in the bodybuilding forum instead of the beginners forum? I’m not trying to play forum cop and tell you to post somewhere else, but reading through the posts in this thread it sure sounds like a conversation that belongs in beginners.

[quote]jtg987 wrote:
Ok so let me get this right

currently my personal best on bench is 135kg for one rep, that i just achieved last friday

my personal best for chin up is a bw of 107 +15kg x2, and personal best for bent over row is 102.5kg x5

that means i have an imbalance? i’ll be honest i dont think i can at the moment safely go much heavier on my bent over row, also with chin up’s i weigh less now than when i did that(around xmas last year)

[/quote]

That’s why you should switch to cable row with wide bar or chest supported DB rows.

-chris

[quote]Avocado wrote:
jtg987 wrote:
Ok so let me get this right

currently my personal best on bench is 135kg for one rep, that i just achieved last friday

my personal best for chin up is a bw of 107 +15kg x2, and personal best for bent over row is 102.5kg x5

that means i have an imbalance? i’ll be honest i dont think i can at the moment safely go much heavier on my bent over row, also with chin up’s i weigh less now than when i did that(around xmas last year)

That’s why you should switch to cable row with wide bar or chest supported DB rows.

-chris[/quote]

id do db chest supported rows, but they only go up too 40kg the dumbbells at my gym(yes im planning on changing gym once my contract runs out), so thats out. and the only wide bar are attached to lat pull down machines which i can already do the stack

[quote]jtg987 wrote:
Avocado wrote:
jtg987 wrote:
Ok so let me get this right

currently my personal best on bench is 135kg for one rep, that i just achieved last friday

my personal best for chin up is a bw of 107 +15kg x2, and personal best for bent over row is 102.5kg x5

that means i have an imbalance? i’ll be honest i dont think i can at the moment safely go much heavier on my bent over row, also with chin up’s i weigh less now than when i did that(around xmas last year)

That’s why you should switch to cable row with wide bar or chest supported DB rows.

-chris

id do db chest supported rows, but they only go up too 40kg the dumbbells at my gym(yes im planning on changing gym once my contract runs out), so thats out. and the only wide bar are attached to lat pull down machines which i can already do the stack[/quote]

wow. boo for that. have you tried taking the chest support angle bench thingy to the squat rack and loading the bar on the pins and using the bar bell for chest supported rows? get creative.

-chris