T Nation

No Proper Restart after 18 Months

38 year old male
Did 4 cycles, 3 from which I recovered completely. From the last cycle of equipiose, test e 500 mg a week and 4 weeks of tbol which lasted 20 weeks I could never completely recover after cessation for 18 months.
Did a proper pct hcg, nolva but to no avail.

Total Test is in the lower normal range
Fsh lh normal
Shbg normal
Experiencing Ed, fatigue and depression.

Any help would be much appreciated.

Please elaborate on your PCT. IE. When did you run the HCG and at what dose? When did you start Nolva / what doses / for how long? When did you take bloods? Have you tried another PCT? Need more info.

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Clomid is a way better option for PCT - if you’d like to try unlocking HPTA again.

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Waited 3 weeks after my last injection
500 iu hcg eod for 2 weeks
40 30 20 20 10 nolva with arimidex 0.25 e3d
I did only one pct 1,5 year ago and that was it
I tested last week

I would definitely. It came as a bit of a shock for me.

Ah sorry it has been 1 year since I did my pct

plz tell us why!

You’re 38. This is the risk cycling as we get older. It’s why you don’t see a lot of guys 35+ still cycling but rather blast and cruise. You may end up on trt from here. Just be mentally prepared for that as a possible outcome.

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Created and registered as CNS antagonist, better outcome from studies on hypothalamus antagonism.

This is why your PCT failed. You started with hormones still in your blood.

SB

Intresting all the recent studies iv read have shown it to be no more effective then nolva.

Actually from my research nolva has been shown to be just as effective at a mg to mg bases with far less potential negative side effects.

In general you are right, but I can find studies with the opposite conclusions (have posted them in these forums once). From personal experience and my clients, Clomid gave us much better LH and FSH response (faster and way bigger concentration), but with more mental side effects for sure. I haven’t PCT for years, but still I’d choose Clomid, then after few (1-3) weeks maybe switch to Nolvadex as a taper off drug.

So what do you suggest? Another pct? Go to trt?

I’d suggest at your age and 4 cycles already done you are obviously going to want to continue might as well look into trt.

Also pay attention to what @iron_yuppie said

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I agree, but give PCT a try if you decide that you quit forever. So you wouldn’t regret.

Im.in the same boat. 3-4 months post
Low libido got bloodwork done yesterday test came in at 239

Will try clomid and go from there

You guys have to manage your E2 and PRL levels with proper drugs when on PCT, especially after the therapy - SERMs tend to raise them dramatically so you’d be still blocked after the drugs leave your system.

But serms bind to and competitively inhibit the action of E2 at a receptor level via competitive inhibition. E2 rises proportionately with T (regarding tamox, with clomid… zuclomiphene… the rise can be disproportionate). Even with the increase, the action of said increased E2 is minimal as the SERM binds to the ER. Perhaps AFTER PCT if E has disproportionately risen with clomid too much E in ratio with T could induce or exacerbate a the existing negative feedback loop you’re trying too eliminated (priorly induced via gear usage)

AI usage is one of the things we will disagree with. I don’t think it’s required for the vast majority unless dosages are high. If you could explain to me WHY you aromatise too much, provide bloods as proof I’d understand… otherwise I don’t understand the notion of “E2 must be within this range”… with this rhetoric why not crush DHT alongside T? AAS alter the RAAS to induce a pro hypertensive effect. Both aldosterone and estrogen can have an impact on total body fluid balance, but when you’ve got high E2, high DHT etc I don’t always correlate excess water retention with “high E2”… Whenever someone has a bad emotion, “spills over” a bit etc, it’s always “lets eat a bunch of exemestane”… the majority of guys can probably handle 600mg test weekly without an AI. I’ve used 250mg test +20mg dbol for two weeks, no AI… no symptoms… There’s a decent change aldosterone dysregulation could induce fluid retention no? It doesn’t HAVE to be estrogen mediated. Otherwise why does nandrolone tend to induce water retention despite aromatising at roughly 20% to that of test… What about anadrol?

I don’t understand why so many guys on TRT are using AI’s, either. Testosterone REPLACEMENT shouldn’t require an AI… Unless you’ve got klinefelters syndrome, aromatase excess syndrome etc… I don’t understand why you’d need an AI

What’s the oral bioavailability of anadrol. I’ve never been comfortable trying it given the sheer dosages people take to acquire results (50-150mg weekly) this would equate to taking 500-1500mg long esteemed test/deca or whatever pertaining to the amount of base hormone (70mg TNE = 100mg test E etc)… I’m not comfortable going above 400mg weekly… ever… don’t want to die from lethal arrhythmia induced by extensive cardiac enlargement. Even 25mg seems too much, the only oral I’d go to say 25mg daily with (for more than 2 weeks) is oxandrolone…

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What you’re experiencing is not uncommon. 20 weeks is a long cycle 5 weeks of PCT was probably not enough.
I would jump back on a low dose clomid cycle(25mg/day), for 6-8 weeks and see if you are feeling a bit better. I would get my bloods tested again, to see if you are capable of producing higher levels of testosterone whilst on clomid.
This may improve you when you go off the clomid. In your position I would only bother to persist with clomid if you want to get your woman pregnant. Otherwise you might need to get TRT.