No Post Workout Shake?

Hey guys,

I know that on this site, as well as anywhere else you look, the importance of the post-workout shake is pounded into our heads over and over. The anabolic “window” is the reason given, meaning that with a high carb high protein shake, the insulin spike results in higher rates of protein synthesis.

However, I’ve been reading Arthur de Vaney’s site recently, as well as following his nutritional/dietary guidelines. The diet is working very well for me. The only piece of advice that I’ve yet to put into practice is HIS take on the post-workout shake, which he is adamantly against. His reasons being that after a workout, the body’s GH output is much higher than normal. This being a good thing, why would you want to abruptly end it with an insulin spike? He says the body’s response to a hard workout is to build/preserve muscle, and the post workout shake affects this negatively, hormonally.

What are you thoughts? I’m thinking of trying it out, but VERY reluctant to risk any hard-earned muscle!!!

I think he uses a faulty approach to his PWO strategy.

GH builds muscle → How can I maximize GH? → Not eating PWO will maximize GH —> No PWO shake is best

Instead of looking at it exclusively from a GH standpoint, you should ask what you can do to maximize GROWTH, which is dependant on several hormones and adequate nutrition.

How can I maximize growth? → By providing sufficient nutrition and insulin → PWO shake is best.

He’s not wrong in his claims, but “PWO should be viewed nutritionally, not hormonally.” (Dave Barr)

I always thought that after a workout the muscle breaks down (catabolism) and that fast acting carbs and protein reverses this into anabolism. Also it replenishes the muscles’ glycogen stores which are used up during training.

[quote]dharmabum31 wrote:
What are you thoughts? I’m thinking of trying it out, but VERY reluctant to risk any hard-earned muscle!!![/quote]

There you go; you answered your own question.

Seriously man, there is a mountain of evidence to support the PWO nutritional consensus. Well, unless it’s some sort of grand conspiracy from supp. companies…

[quote]lixy wrote:
dharmabum31 wrote:
What are you thoughts? I’m thinking of trying it out, but VERY reluctant to risk any hard-earned muscle!!!

There you go; you answered your own question.

Seriously man, there is a mountain of evidence to support the PWO nutritional consensus. Well, unless it’s some sort of grand conspiracy from supp. companies…[/quote]

Now why on earth would they do that!?!?!?!?

I’ve done both. Built most of my strength/muscle while practicing intermittent fasting.

But both ways work for my goals (relative strength/power, speed, and keeping relatively lean).

If you’re trying to get as huge as possible as soon as possible, I’d say probably skip the fasting. I like the way I feel when practicing IF/paleo. I work out on an empty stomach (14-20 hours including sleep). I break my fast with a piece of fruit usually (30 minutes post workout), then have a full meal like 30-60 minutes after that).I gain muscle and strength at a steady pace, but I will not guarantee that you will have the same results.

By the way, I’m 5’10, 190, about 10% bf. Maybe a push for a lean 200 would take a lot more carbohydrate and more regular eating, but personally I don’t really care. Try it for a few weeks. Remember that the muscle you’ve had in the past is easier to regain for whatever reason. And you have a scale, keep tabs on your weight, bf (mirror) and strength levels.

Also, I wouldn’t recommend trying it on a grain/starch based diet.

limit carbs in the evening especially before bed, gives you a big GH Spike about 20mins into sleep, PWO GH increases yes but its not the be all and end all, Take your post work out shake, your body needs glycogen and BCAAs more than an intermittent GH spike, looking at it on a system wide scale.

As I remember, the post workout GH rise is accompanied by a cortisol rise which is less than ideal.

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Al I bet your medicine cabinet is awesome