T Nation

No Go on Oral Portion of Cycle

My grocery store doesn’t carry dbol or any sort of oral. They do carry EQ and tren. I have done no reserach on trenbolone but I have on EQ. My current proposed dosage for test is 750mg/week of test e. I was thinking of adding the EQ at 400mg/week. That puts me over a gram of gear per week for my first.

I was also contemplating using SD as a weak replacement for the dbol. I would run it at 30mg/day for 4 weeks. It has consistently put weight on me with few sides. Although it couldn’t even attempt to hold a candle to dbol its the only oral that I have to work with. Has anyone tried this pairing? A prohormone with real AAS. Any suggestions are appreciated. -GB

[quote]Growing_Boy wrote:
That puts me over a gram of gear per week for my first.
[/quote]

C’mon dude… What do you THINK everyone is gonna say?

I was thinking of running havoc in the beginning of a test cycle. Im not going to for a few reasons.
The results you can get from 750mg of test will completely overshadow anything a prohormone can give. I dont know how long SD takes to start really kicking in, but I know that Havoc does its best work after 2 weeks at 40mg/d, which is the upper end of the dosing recomendation.
I feel that using a prohormone in the beginning of a pretty hefty dose of test for a first timer will not be worth it. The possible sides of SD will not justify the mediocre gains that it will provide in the early weeks.

Give some thought to kickstarting the cycle with test prop. Using EQ will probably be overkill. The less is more philosophy is appropriate, especially for a first cycle

[quote]Growing_Boy wrote:
My grocery store doesn’t carry dbol or any sort of oral.[/quote]

lol wut

[quote]Makavali wrote:
Growing_Boy wrote:
My ‘grocery’ store doesn’t carry dbol or any sort of oral.[/quote]

corrected :slight_smile:

[quote]Hussayn wrote:
Makavali wrote:
Growing_Boy wrote:
My ‘grocery’ store doesn’t carry dbol or any sort of oral.

corrected :slight_smile:

[/quote]

Ah I see now!

But now I feel very unsmart. :frowning:

[quote]Makavali wrote:
Hussayn wrote:
Makavali wrote:
Growing_Boy wrote:
My ‘grocery’ store doesn’t carry dbol or any sort of oral.

corrected :slight_smile:

Ah I see now!

But now I feel very unsmart. :([/quote]

That feeling should be normal for you.

[quote]Thatguy1083 wrote:
Growing_Boy wrote:
That puts me over a gram of gear per week for my first.

C’mon dude… What do you THINK everyone is gonna say?[/quote]

Probably something along the lines of, “you’re going to fuck yourself up” or “you’re dumb” maybe a “go for it pound it mate!” I appreciate what everyone has to say and I listen to the wise but at the end of the day when the syringe is loaded and ready, when I’m standing in my room with pants down looking out my window remembering my past, the decision is mine. I do think the EQ at that dosage will be overkill. The kick start with the prop seems more appropriate.

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
I was thinking of running havoc in the beginning of a test cycle. Im not going to for a few reasons.
The results you can get from 750mg of test will completely overshadow anything a prohormone can give. I dont know how long SD takes to start really kicking in, but I know that Havoc does its best work after 2 weeks at 40mg/d, which is the upper end of the dosing recomendation.
I feel that using a prohormone in the beginning of a pretty hefty dose of test for a first timer will not be worth it. The possible sides of SD will not justify the mediocre gains that it will provide in the early weeks.

Give some thought to kickstarting the cycle with test prop. Using EQ will probably be overkill. The less is more philosophy is appropriate, especially for a first cycle [/quote]

First and foremost, I appreciate the post. Throughout my experience with SD, the compound has not manifested itself in my system to be the Satan of prohormones. My last cycle was very harsh on my liver but thats about it. I kept most of my gains sans the water and the colossal amount of fat I gained because of my “hey bitch, I’m bulking I’m eating the whole thing” mentality.

Logically, the SD seems like a piss in a bucket in comparison to the colossal strength of the dosage of test I propose on administering. I really liked my original draft that included the dbol in weeks 3-6, but tragically my “grocer” doesn’t carry what I need. The one draw back, personally, to the the kickstart with prop is the need for more injections. Any further advice is welcomed. Thanks guys -GB

I have a friend who used SD extensively while being a drug-tested athlete in college, he’s also very bright and has shared PM’s with some chemists around BB.com like Patrick Arnold and some other “respected members”. As such, I consider him sort of a SD expert, if you will. He probably has 10+ cycles of 2-6 weeks with that compound under his belt.

SD should not be referred to as a prohormone. Or a prosteroid. It is chemically identical to the steroid Masteron, except it is methylated. Methylation may change the “feel” of a steroid slightly, but its general categorization and effects remain the same. Notably, an example of this would be the differences between the feel of oral Winstrol and injectable Winstrol.

Patrick Arnold has also said that on a mg-to-mg basis, SD is the most powerful oral steroid, and also the most liver toxic. Patrick Arnold is probably one of the brightest chemistry minds in the supplement industry, period, for the doubters.

Consider how many users of injectable Masteron have complained about unbearable pumps and tightness at anything above 300mg/week. My friend seems to think this rings true as well, as he has observed the same thing at anything above 40mg/day, which is 280mg/week for the mathematically challenged. He believes the “sweet spot” to be 20-30mg/day, depending on lean body mass.

In short, you are adding Masteron to your cycle should you decide to do this. Just because the Masteron (SD) was sold at GNC at one time does not mean it is not, in fact, Masteron. So consider these facts – many anecdotal, but some rooted in science – and make an informed decision.

Correct me if I’m wrong here, but isn’t the injectable winstrol exactly the same as the oral one? As in no difference whatsoever chemically?

They are both methylated, but i think his point still stands wise arse ;p

GB - Do 500mg Test with proviron for 10 weeks for your first cycle.

Shit, i have approx. 10 under my belt and still that was my last cycle! (But 7 weeks no less!)

SD? EQ? WTF? hehe!

Ya… 750 - which i may add, you should read scotts Dante quote on another thread - isnt a beginner dose.

IMHO 250 is a beginner dose. In my eyes, if someone cannot grow on 250 test for 10 weeks for their first cycle, then they have no business using again, and they may as well take up chess.

really.

I have met a few lads who used this kind of dose for the first 2, and have made great progress.

IMO when one puts on a quick 30lbs, more is lost post cycle.
When one puts on a steady 15lbs, more is kept.

JMO.

JJ

[quote] JJ wrote:
They are both methylated, but i think his point still stands wise arse ;p[/quote]

LMAO! No, I was actually just checking. I’m trying to cut back on the wise-assery!

yeah yeah… i havent seen that - and i dont want you to either, you are a funny twat.

j :wink:

i was running like 1.5g of aas for my first go at 19. It was pretty cool, but im starting to learn it can be counter productive and your better off just doin somthing like 500mg test and then 400-500mg of EQ. that would be an amazing first cycle and allow for easier future progress if you plan to do this for a while.

[quote]Makavali wrote:
Correct me if I’m wrong here, but isn’t the injectable winstrol exactly the same as the oral one? As in no difference whatsoever chemically?[/quote]

Could be man… I think you’re right.

I’m not the most knowledgeable guy with juice just yet as I’ve never actually done a cycle… lol. That being said, I’ve read this forum for a few years now, and researched other places as well.

I comment when I feel I can add something worthwhile to a discussion, and when you’re living with a kid who’s done 10+ SD cycles on his way to winning collegiate track championships, you tend to pick up some stuff.

As an interesting aside, he used that compound because Don Catlin of UCLA medical research staff who used to head the IOC anti-doping committee put the detection time of SD at <10 days depending on bodyfat levels.

LESS THAN TEN DAYS! lol. Consider the implications in sport.

From research Id say take the sd for the first 4 weeks because your test e won’t be in full strength by then and the sd kicks in within a week…most people i know say it takes a good 4 weeks for test e to start showing its affects…then the cycle i have planned for my future is test/eq at 500mg wk test e and 400 wk eq…i think 750 may be a bit much…probably wouldn’t be a good idea to mess with tren yet…from what i’ve read it has some AMAZING positives and UGLY negatives with the insomnia, sweats, and progesterone issues :wink:

well there is my 2 centavos…lol

DG

I think deca doesnt get its due’s these days…

It is a good drug IMO. Low sides all round - great for size AND good for cutting if you use a good quality product and arent intending on competing…

And Gerdo, (hi mate) you gonna need at least a Gram of test with a good 150mg ED of tren ace to compete near me…

Seriously though… you will.

ahem…

I would NOT mess with SD man - why why why? why bother?
Turinabol? Var? Dbol? even winny… there’s plenty of options.

JJ

[quote]Affliction wrote:
Makavali wrote:
Correct me if I’m wrong here, but isn’t the injectable winstrol exactly the same as the oral one? As in no difference whatsoever chemically?

Could be man… I think you’re right.

[/quote]

It is the same.

GB I sent you a pm…

[quote] JJ wrote:
yeah yeah… i havent seen that - and i dont want you to either, you are a funny twat.

j ;)[/quote]

I like to think I’m mostly a twat.