No Carbs Before or After Workout?

[quote]Stronghold wrote:
RE: HITT, EPOC accounts for maybe 80 calories over the course of 24 hours. The bigger benefit to it is that you’re burning 500+ calories during the 30 minutes or whatever that you’re doing it.[/quote]

Agreed on the latter and I suspect the research that produced the former involved somewhat lazy subjects.

Personal experience would put that number MUCH CLOSER to 800 than 80 IME, but it’s not like a mirror doesn’t trump these “numbers” every single time.

[quote]chillain wrote:

[quote]Stronghold wrote:
RE: HITT, EPOC accounts for maybe 80 calories over the course of 24 hours. The bigger benefit to it is that you’re burning 500+ calories during the 30 minutes or whatever that you’re doing it.[/quote]

Agreed on the latter and I suspect the research that produced the former involved somewhat lazy subjects.

Personal experience would put that number MUCH CLOSER to 800 than 80 IME, but it’s not like a mirror doesn’t trump these “numbers” every single time.
[/quote]

But did that 800 mainly come from EPOC or from the actual HIIT itself? That was kind of my point, EPOC is vastly exaggerated, but killing yourself for 30 minutes burns a fuckload of calories on it’s own.

Stronghold. You are right (2 - 3 days) is optimal. This is being debated in the running world a lot. (carb loading the might before the race!!!). This has more to do with pre work out. I personally don’t eat one hour before a workout, as I feel sluggish if I do. Then, I use the anaconda protocol two for my work out. Nothing worst then running out of juice halfway thru.

Also, then other reason you work out, then cardio. If you do the opposite, you run out of juice while lifting iron. Yeah, that sucks donkey balls.

In your expierence then guys whats going on (roughly) with the person that is low to zero carb pre workouts but still performs with no dip in energy and or performace? What do you think is going on there?

I wonder if there would be any correlation with pre vs post when looking at ecto vs endomorphs.

[quote]MattyG35 wrote:
I wonder if there would be any correlation with pre vs post when looking at ecto vs endomorphs.[/quote]

endomorph here, and i cant have any carbs within 4 hours pre or post workout. pre workout they make me have a blood sugar crash and then a shitty workout, and post workout they make me fall asleep. my body is fucked lol. some fruit before bed is all i can deal with.

[quote]Stronghold wrote:
As in, the day after a moderate carb intake, I have great workouts and the day after lower carb intake but carbs 60-90 minutes pre-workout, I don’t. [/quote]

x2. I’ve gotten to the point where I don’t put any thought into what I have pre-workout anymore. Instead I put a lot more thought into what I have for dinner the night before a training session.

[quote]hipsr4runnin wrote:
In your expierence then guys whats going on (roughly) with the person that is low to zero carb pre workouts but still performs with no dip in energy and or performace? What do you think is going on there?
[/quote]
Not sure, but all I know is I’ve tried training fasted (using just SWF/Ana/MAG-10, with no food beforehand), and I love it. I used to use FINiBARs beforehand, but now I just use more SWF if I want more carbs during my workout. I know that Thib rarely uses FINiBARs pre-workout, and just uses SWF.

Lifting in itself is very metabolically demanding, and while yes, you should always strive to increase performance in the gym, that doesn’t mean you need a billion carbohydrates before hand. You can still use that lifting session to burn fat. That’s why I stopped taking FINiBARs before-hand… taking 41g carbs all at once pre-workout hampers pretty much any fat loss effect. I’d rather sip on SWF gradually over the course of 90 mins. Do keep in mind that I am an Olympic lifter, but I still have many workouts with quite a bit of TUT (squats, deads, pull-ups, presses, etc).

Basically, I have a meat + nuts + berries breakfast, and then focus on increasing DRIVE before I train. I do this by taking Fast Brain 2.0, caffeine pills, Power Drive, and Alpha-GPC. Works great. I then have my SWF/Ana/Mag combo, and then have a big ass meal with whatever carbs I need post-workout. And then I have a small meal after that, or a decent-sized protein shake with some healthy fats + fiber thrown in.

[quote]wannabebig25 wrote:

[quote]MattyG35 wrote:
I wonder if there would be any correlation with pre vs post when looking at ecto vs endomorphs.[/quote]

endomorph here, and i cant have any carbs within 4 hours pre or post workout. pre workout they make me have a blood sugar crash and then a shitty workout, and post workout they make me fall asleep. my body is fucked lol. some fruit before bed is all i can deal with.[/quote]

You might want to look into that, not a doctor, but sounds like your insulin sensitivity is the shits.

[quote]PB Andy wrote:

[quote]hipsr4runnin wrote:
In your expierence then guys whats going on (roughly) with the person that is low to zero carb pre workouts but still performs with no dip in energy and or performace? What do you think is going on there?
[/quote]
Not sure, but all I know is I’ve tried training fasted (using just SWF/Ana/MAG-10, with no food beforehand), and I love it. I used to use FINiBARs beforehand, but now I just use more SWF if I want more carbs during my workout. I know that Thib rarely uses FINiBARs pre-workout, and just uses SWF.

Lifting in itself is very metabolically demanding, and while yes, you should always strive to increase performance in the gym, that doesn’t mean you need a billion carbohydrates before hand. You can still use that lifting session to burn fat. That’s why I stopped taking FINiBARs before-hand… taking 41g carbs all at once pre-workout hampers pretty much any fat loss effect. I’d rather sip on SWF gradually over the course of 90 mins. Do keep in mind that I am an Olympic lifter, but I still have many workouts with quite a bit of TUT (squats, deads, pull-ups, presses, etc).

Basically, I have a meat + nuts + berries breakfast, and then focus on increasing DRIVE before I train. I do this by taking Fast Brain 2.0, caffeine pills, Power Drive, and Alpha-GPC. Works great. I then have my SWF/Ana/Mag combo, and then have a big ass meal with whatever carbs I need post-workout. And then I have a small meal after that, or a decent-sized protein shake with some healthy fats + fiber thrown in.[/quote]

This is similar to what I’m doing. I’m on 16/8 IF, so my first meal is eggs and a protein shake or meat+veggies, followed by alpha-gpc and a moderate dose of stimulants 1-2 hours later. I sip Anaconda while I train and have my carbs in the 2 or so meals post workout (both within 8 hours or so). I train nearly every day, so this works very well for me. If I am REALLY dragging and have been moving around more or stressed during my fasting period and my blood sugar is low, I might have 20 or so g of carbohydrates pre workout to stabilize blood glucose, but that’s the exception, not the norm.

Like Andy, I find I have better workouts if I’m “topped off” the day before in terms of energy substrate and focus more on “drive” with my pre workout supplements. I seem to remember some research showing that full glycogen replenishment normally takes about 24 hours to occur, and even the super-fast carbohydrate sources don’t get it done all the way in 90 minutes. If you were doing twice daily sessions or something, there is merit to carbohydrate consumption before the second session, but for my needs, I find it does more harm than good.

[quote]MattyG35 wrote:

[quote]wannabebig25 wrote:

[quote]MattyG35 wrote:
I wonder if there would be any correlation with pre vs post when looking at ecto vs endomorphs.[/quote]

endomorph here, and i cant have any carbs within 4 hours pre or post workout. pre workout they make me have a blood sugar crash and then a shitty workout, and post workout they make me fall asleep. my body is fucked lol. some fruit before bed is all i can deal with.[/quote]

You might want to look into that, not a doctor, but sounds like your insulin sensitivity is the shits.[/quote]

absolutely, no doubt about that. i can eat oatmeal and potatoes and gain fat within 3 days. my body cannot tolerate carbs.