T Nation

No-Carb "Carb Ups"


#61

No issues with carbs. I followed a targeted keto diet for a long time and managed insulin perfectly, as well as being able to return to ketosis relatively quickly after significant carb intake. I believe you need an element of metabolic flexibility so wouldn’t adhere to a zero carb diet indefinitely.


#62

That sounds like the type of damage that occurs when someone has either unmanaged or end stage diabetes.

If you were to put ketosis on a risk -> reward continuum, would it weigh out as low, medium, or high in either direction, or basically a wash?


#63

That’s patently false. Are you trying to suggest from an evolutionary point of view we essentially lapse into a catabolic state after spells gorging meat? And does that physiology apply to other natural predators? Assuming you have any appreciable body fat you will tap into those stores ahead of lean mass.


#64

Show me evidence that human ancestors gorged on meat PROTEIN after a kill. The foundation of their diet was animal fat. Fat is 10% as caloric dense as lean muscle and the body can store fat for later. Protein can be dried, smoked, salted. Even lean meat sources. Horse and bison MEAT would require some 7000 calories to get to 500-600 grams of protein and it was more efficient for people to eat more of the separable fat first.

Predators do shrink in the days after a meat gorge, or else they would get larger without limits, and predators peak out much smaller than prey because they have to be somewhat fast. Plus while you are correct that burning fat would be metabolically efficient, muscle makes them heavier per stored calorie 10:1 so I would say that both of your examples are invalid if not supporting the opposite.

Have you read up on protein cycling? Raising protein and then cutting it back fast is actually a way to turn on autophagy of damaged and malformed proteins in the body because it turns up the body’s reliance on glucose and the enzymes used to turn protein into glucose. Also you may have seen bodybuilding articles about ramping up and then cutting back protein one day a week to prevent the body from becoming too “good” or “reliant” on protein as a fuel source. Studies with world class athletes found that at .7 grams per pound, 90% of elite athletes were in nitrogen balance, and at .85, 90% were at maximal rate of protein synthesis. Every gram above .85 netted urea or ammonia, however when athletes were taking in up to 1.3 grams per pound of protein and then cut to .7, they were NOT in negative nitrogen balance for 2-6 days.


#65

Aside from all the bickering about who’s being a dick and who isn’t, for me it’s simply an increasingly inefficient approach.

I don’t understand why wou would want to make your body metabolize all that protein simply to convert to glucose, when you can be smart and simply choose healthy carb options/timing. Your making your body do way more work than necessary. Your kidneys are gonna be working their ass off to clear all the merabolites. If you do indeed try this drink a tonic of waters at least.

The process your outlining is funny enough the same reason why lots of people fail with trying to stay in ketosis. They take a high protein approach when the whole point ins to become fat adapted. Thus accidentally converting protein into glucose


#66

Actually, a pretty easy gauge of whether you are getting in carbs too fast on a carb up is checking your blood sugar. Yes, 75 grams of carbs from rice coming off Keto is going to put you over 140, maybe over 180, but that glucose isn’t getting into your muscles anyway, so obviously 75 grams at once is too much to start. Try x grams of rice or potatoes or fruit. Check blood sugar at 90-100 minutes. If your blood sugar is 140 it was too much to start with. Point is that the “harm” of a short term high blood sugar is the direct result of too MANY carbs coming off of keto to put them all into muscle and liver (without exogenous insulin).


#67

Actually, this is a common myth perpetuated by the keto police. Protein will always get converted into glucose regardless of the ratios you use. To illustrate that point, I’m currently averaging 200-225 PRO a day and 45-55 FAT yet still showing blood ketone levels around 1.5mmol.


#68

Absolutely, this is not something for everyone.


#69

Be reasonable, lean tissue wasn’t tossed aside. I agree organ meats and fat were vital parts of their diet (and still is). The point is, we would not have survived if, when food became scare following a feast period, we started to atrophy at the first sign of famine.

True, but they are still jacked nevertheless. Clearly this outcome would not be possible if this was as inefficient as you claim.

That’s one of the main reasons I fast - to attain the benefits you mention.