T Nation

No-Carb "Carb Ups"


For someone with no emotional investment you are quite defensive on the matter. Seems a little odd. Maybe Waittz was right and you did eat some carbs.

I also love how you’ve ignored all the posts where people say that the supposed evils of carb ups don’t happen to them. Pretty clear that’s because you have nothing.

Very true, you cunt.


Fixed that for you!

If you have an interest in the science of it and the topic and want to experiment then yeah go for it. I’m sure somewhere will have a bulk buy meat sale on.


It seems like you’re a fan of this approach, or the guy who posted the video. NBD, just sounds like you’re more than objective here.

-Yes, it’s a cyclical approach. Still sounds nuts to me to consume that much protein in a day for any reason, but when the goal is to do a “Carb load”, it’s ludicrously ridiculous.

You’re correct, it is a bad example to site. Any pro bodybuilder that eats 500g of protein a day is most likely injecting insane amounts of chemicals into their body also, so, I’m not taking ANY cues from them in that regard. And, it’s irrelevant to the point of your post and to this guy’s video. Your original question was about eating 400-600g of protein to substitute a carb load, not to mimic the diets of pro, super-roided bodybuilders.

I get that, and personally I’ve always looked for non-traditional ways to naturally continue progressing and am willing to be open minded.

Still think a “protein carb load” is really, really dumb. If the goal was to eat as much protein as possible, or experiment with 500g of protein a day for muscle gains, I would still think it’s ridiculous, but it would make more sense. For the purpose of carb loading, 500g of protein is ridiculous.


Hi Rob,

Not a fan per se but I am intrigued by various aspects, which go much wider than a single author/blogger.

As mentioned in one of the posts, this approach is based on an IF/keto/carnivore lifestyle. Therefore, the goal is not to ‘carb load’. The goal is to attain the benefits associated with carb-loading without the corresponding negatives.

I’m not going to hammer the broscience approach, or prevailing nutritional notions of the times, and label them ridiculous. Just opening the idea up to debate, a lot of which has been really useful.


I think you’re splitting hairs there my friend in your semantics.

I’ve carb loaded numerous times for shows, and have never experienced any significant negative effects. Occasionally after a high carb day I’d be a little more tired than usual, but nothing that prevented me from going about my business. As discussed already, there are many ways to carb load, with carbs, while minimizing the proposed negative effects.


Biggest disadvantage other than the no carb thing is you’re gonna stink to high heaven. I can’t even imagine those farts!


Rob, please understand this key difference: you cannot ‘carb load’ on carnivore. No semantics here.


I’m thinking here more about the negatives at a cellular level from longer-term, higher carb intakes. I would never generalise and claim every carb up leads to negative side effects.


What are those? I’ve used carbs as a primary energy source for pretty much all of adulthood to maintain very high energy outputs. I’ve even gone so far as to experiment using those Carbo-loading glucose packs that triathlon racers use, along with boxes of Krispy-kremes to keep running for 16+ hrs. at a time.

So what kind of damage does that type of carbohydrate consumption do?



Why don’t you just try it out, and tell us how eating 5 lbs of meat doesn’t make you feel bloated.


There is a raft of evidence linking such carbs to bad health over the longer term, everything from diabetes to build up of plaques on the brain. The key component is inflammation.

Don’t misconstrue this as an “all carbs are evil” post. You just asked the question.


I did inadvertently quite recently during a Man V Food challenge involving a large t-bone and pile of chicken quarters. No bloat, no gas…


LOL says the dude with the weird hipster diet

Yeah bro, you’re one of the world’s elite because you starve yourself.

Very sensible idea^


I don’t. I know that there is really no getting around the body using glucose for energy, and the mechanisms are all in place to achieve that several ways.

I just wonder sometimes about the claims vs. reality, how badly or often certain types of damage may occur, and whether or not it’s simply the inevitable result of being alive or an actual bad outcome as a result of a specific substance.

Like cancer. If you are alive, you have cancerous cells in your body. Whether or not they take off into a disease is a different story.


Yeah, dude. Send me your daily routine and I’ll do that instead.


Snowflakes are critical in the accumulation of water over a land area. We experienced some significant fires this summer as a result of inadequate snowfall in the winter.


My daily routine is eating what I want and working with a knowledgeable coach. You should give it a try.


I don’t think that a few days with blood sugar spikes in the 140s is going to cause problems in the long term. The studies on “carnivore” humans where their blood sugar went into the 200-260 range used 100 grams of glucose syrup and within 1 week of 150 grams of carbs a day they were borderline passing. These people had eaten nothing but meat for 2+ years. I think that the simplest way to carb up from ketosis would be to eat a substantial calorie deficit for 2-3 days prior start with a source with fructose to get the liver filled up and maybe starting with 100 grams of glucose polymers and adding 50 grams a day over 5 days until you hit 300. I might consider also starting with help from legal OTC regular insulin. You need insulin to spike to crank back up production of glycolytic enzymes. If your blood sugar spikes over 180 (which I have seen on carb ups with a lot of sushi rice involved) you will spill glucose into urine.

I would suspect that using 500 grams of protein to carb up would turn off ketones (depriving you of what has become your brain’s energy source) but won’t do a very good job of loading glycogen, will raise ammonia levels dramatically, and will turn your body into a protein burning machine which will lead to a loss of muscle afterwards.


Carb ups from ketosis have been shown to produce blood sugar levels over 140 which is the level that starts to harm endothelial lining, eyes, and pancreatic cells. There has been documentation of blood sugars as high at 265. Above 180 tends to cause mental distress and also kidney damage. I do not think that 5 days of higher than normal blood sugar 2-4 times a year is going to result an accumulation of this kind of cellular damage, especially since the person probably has sparkling blood sugar levels 48 weeks out of the year.



Are you worried at all that it will be hard to get back off of carbs if you use them to carb up, or more about a few days of high blood sugar?

Hey, also, what about using a high leucine protein source like mag-10 to get insulin flowing without spiking blood sugar? The insulin will upregulate glucose burning enzymes. Another thing-if your body is not burning glucose very much, then it shouldn’t take as much to load up the muscles since they are not going to be able to dispose it it very fast.