T Nation

No Alpha Males?


Interesting read found on reddit.



This guy sounds like a pussy looking for a wordy justification. Walk in to any organization in the US and you'll find clear lines of dominant authority.



It sounds to me like he is saying that simply being the biggest and the strongest dosen't necessarily insure alpha status.

Which is very true.


The author just described the defining qualities of most, if not all political leaders.

So yes, we do have alpha males and betas too, in the form of military leaders who back up the alpha with physical power. Human betas also tend to have the more agressive demeanour.

There's also the ultimate Alpha Male of Western civilisation; God and his 'beta' Jesus. Even if you don't believe in them, you still have to swear an oath on the Bible if you end up in court.


I believe that is incorrect. You can just affirm that you will tell the truth. No religion necessary.


I agree. I disagree that the manipulative wieners in the background become the "alpha", however.

The smartest, most influential, most confident males will always be the leaders. There are studies showing tall males tend to rise to more prominent positions than their shorter counterparts, demonstrating an important if subliminal aspect to "traditional" alpha perception and mentality.

Under intelligent monkeys may not be able to recognize manipulation but humans do and manipulative people are often pariahs.

This guy is playing semantics, nothing genuinly intuitive in his theory at all.


Most intelligent use of bandwidth ever, sir. Thank you for your contribution.


I didn't check that before I posted - am I correct in assuming that only happened relatively recently? Even so, the option to swear on the Bible is still there, so the oath, or the intention of it - to submit yourself to a higher power - also remains. Is the oath still an oath if it's optional?

The general point was that the influence of religion has shaped aspects of our society, so the shadow of God is still there, looming over us, whether you believe or not. The oath was just one example.


I didn't realize people thought that alpha shit was real.

Always assumed it was a joke.

Humans are not pack animals. A person can be content living alone forever without needing an alphas guidance....

Fuck, the only reason we started living nearby was for food...pretty much still the only reason.


In 1961, the U.S. Supreme Court overturned a Maryland law requiring notaries public to swear that they believed in God. In 1991, a federal appeals court ruled that it was unconstitutional for a judge to compel an atheist prospective juror to either swear or affirm, since either oath could be viewed as essentially religious. Today, while mandating that witnesses swear an oath of some sort, federal and most state rules of evidence do not require any mention of God.



Also he did specifically say humans don't have alpha males, which is complete bullshit, however "alphas" gained their status. Any organization, from a cub scout troop to a military hierarchy will have a leader; what ever name you want to use.


Fair enough. Still plenty of other examples out there.


We are not pack animals, we are however a highly social species with a dominance based hierarchy.

We just really, really do not like to be bullied which is why the most aggressive, dominant male more often than not is not the leader of the group.

We prefer our leader relatively dumb and weak.


Egalitarian society is ''explained'' chiefly in terms of ecological or social factors that are self-organizing. However, egalitarian behavior is found in a wide variety of social and ecological settings, and the indications are that such societies are deliberately shaped by their members. This paper looks to egalitarian behavior as an instance of domination of leaders by their own followers, who are guided by an ethos that disapproves of hierarchical behavior in general and of bossiness in leaders in particular. A substantial cross-cultural survey reveals the specific mechanisms by which the political rank and file creates a reverse dominance hierarchy, an anomalous social arrangement which has important implications for cross-phylogenetic comparisons and for the theory of state formation.



At a recent recruiting event for high potentials I noticed that literally all guys (yes, literally, I had an overview of one lecture hall with maybe 200 people) were 5'11 and above, many of the corporate big shots considerably taller.
And again, literally ALL the women were taller than average, hot in varying degrees and not A SINGLE fatty.



Im pretty sure we are pack animals, look at any point in history. Theirs always been a pack leader/king/chief whatever. We dependent on each other for nearly everything. You could say that the entire world is a pack.

Vagina Boob.


Feral children....


I think the human tendency to be social is all due to nuture and convenience...habit really.


Sooooo..... why can we read facial expressions? Are capable of empathy? Have a theory of the mind? Can lie? Are able to build alliances?