T Nation

Nike Sparq

I’ve always assumed that many of the trainers for NBA players were crocks because basketball is one game where you really can get by on skill and your natural athleticism.

But videos like the one below confirm this theory. Check out this bullshit trainer…

What exactly is wrong with this? Not being sarcastic, it’s a serious question.

As a side, Roy is catching more dunks than he ever has and looks way more explosive than he’s ever been so something is working.

Trust me, Brandon Roy is not jumping any higher because of the workouts he is doing.

If nothing in that video looks wrong to you then I don’t know what to tell you, it should be pretty obvious.

He’s doing wheighted jumps onto a box. What’s wrong with that? Don’t know why he’s jumping higher, but it sure as shit ain’t by the good graces of the church. Maybe his training is working?

He raises the dumbells before he executes his jump.

Which obviously means that the muscles of the shoulder have lifted the weight, not the muscles of the hip or knee. Not only does this make the exercise ineffective for increasing the load, it could even make it easier since the dumbells are moving upward, thus adding momentum to the movement.

And as far as Roy jumping higher, your not basing that on any objective measure. Its not like you play ball with him down at the park and now he is dunking where as he couldnt before.

It could be that he is getting used to the play of NBA basketball and is getting himself in good situations.

If your going to do that exercise correctly, strap on an X-Vest.

[quote]Shadowzz4 wrote:
He raises the dumbells before he executes his jump.

Which obviously means that the muscles of the shoulder have lifted the weight, not the muscles of the hip or knee. Not only does this make the exercise ineffective for increasing the load, it could even make it easier since the dumbells are moving upward, thus adding momentum to the movement.

And as far as Roy jumping higher, your not basing that on any objective measure. Its not like you play ball with him down at the park and now he is dunking where as he couldnt before.

It could be that he is getting used to the play of NBA basketball and is getting himself in good situations.[/quote]

His form leaves a little to be desired, but he’s getting the results he’s looking for.

Getting used to th NBA game? He’s a former rookie of the year and two time all-star, and he’s only played three seasons. Think he’s got the NBA game down. The facts are he’s had a handful of dunks this season that he wouldn’t have gotten in the past.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMeFcHNJ2bE

He doesn’t get that dunk a year ago. I’m sure he’s doing other things than just loose form weighted box jumps, but whatever he’s doing is working.

Jesus man, calm down. Have you ever done weighted box jumps? It is almost a gut reaction to curl them up a little bit, it feels really weird to jump up on a box with your arms hanging straight down.

The form I use, and most of the athletes I work with is very similar to that. I have a 6-week cycle of weighted box jumps that I recently put 4 college volleyball players through and all of them hit vert PR’s afterward.

This is like when people criticize Ronnie for not having perfect curl form.

[quote]Shadowzz4 wrote:
it could even make it easier since the dumbells are moving upward, thus adding momentum to the movement.[/quote]

Side note:

Seriously dude? Are you familiar with the laws of physics? Go grab a pair of 60s and curl em up as you jump and let me know if you get higher.

[quote]jtrinsey wrote:
Jesus man, calm down. Have you ever done weighted box jumps? It is almost a gut reaction to curl them up a little bit, it feels really weird to jump up on a box with your arms hanging straight down.

The form I use, and most of the athletes I work with is very similar to that. I have a 6-week cycle of weighted box jumps that I recently put 4 college volleyball players through and all of them hit vert PR’s afterward.

This is like when people criticize Ronnie for not having perfect curl form.[/quote]

Shit, do some unweighted box jumps. I bet dollars to donuts there’s some arm swing involved. Jumping on a box with your arms dangling lifelessly at your side is completely unnatural, and hurts your attempt at generating maximum force.

[quote]Shadowzz4 wrote:
He raises the dumbells before he executes his jump.

[/quote]

Im fucking wasted right now. and I get it. If your using the weight for momentum its not helping you.

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
jtrinsey wrote:
Jesus man, calm down. Have you ever done weighted box jumps? It is almost a gut reaction to curl them up a little bit, it feels really weird to jump up on a box with your arms hanging straight down.

The form I use, and most of the athletes I work with is very similar to that. I have a 6-week cycle of weighted box jumps that I recently put 4 college volleyball players through and all of them hit vert PR’s afterward.

This is like when people criticize Ronnie for not having perfect curl form.

Shit, do some unweighted box jumps. I bet dollars to donuts there’s some arm swing involved. Jumping on a box with your arms dangling lifelessly at your side is completely unnatural, and hurts your attempt at generating maximum force.[/quote]

Yes, but then that force is consistent. If you add dumbbells it give you weight to swing, thus giving you a higher jump.

And you think that’s bad (Yes, I agree X-vests are way more suited to minimize added momentum)? You obviously haven’t seen Iverson doing DB squats, that is 1/4 DB squats, on those vibrating plate-like thingies.

comment from Iverson video

it vibrates so wen u squat the fucking brain tells ur musles to use even more of their power to complete the exercise so overtime u get used to using every fucking muscle to the max thus higher jumping than regular fucking shmoes like u

[quote]WS4JB wrote:
comment from Iverson video

it vibrates so wen u squat the fucking brain tells ur musles to use even more of their power to complete the exercise so overtime u get used to using every fucking muscle to the max thus higher jumping than regular fucking shmoes like u
[/quote]

Soooo, if I take this reasoning to the bedroom, and get a vibrating bed and go at it with my girl, imagine what could happen over time…

[quote]Carnage wrote:
And you think that’s bad (Yes, I agree X-vests are way more suited to minimize added momentum)? You obviously haven’t seen Iverson doing DB squats, that is 1/4 DB squats, on those vibrating plate-like thingies.


[/quote]

Actually some very interesting research done by Bosco over in Italy on the use of vibrational platforms. Haven’t read to into it, but I know they were going over it a lot on the Charlie Francis boards. If my memory serves me correct, the intended application was isometric holds.

Could be shit, might not be. But a lot of people on this site seem to think they know everything about training. I wonder why they aren’t getting paid to train pro athletes?

[quote]brownab wrote:
WhiteFlash wrote:
jtrinsey wrote:
Jesus man, calm down. Have you ever done weighted box jumps? It is almost a gut reaction to curl them up a little bit, it feels really weird to jump up on a box with your arms hanging straight down.

The form I use, and most of the athletes I work with is very similar to that. I have a 6-week cycle of weighted box jumps that I recently put 4 college volleyball players through and all of them hit vert PR’s afterward.

This is like when people criticize Ronnie for not having perfect curl form.

Shit, do some unweighted box jumps. I bet dollars to donuts there’s some arm swing involved. Jumping on a box with your arms dangling lifelessly at your side is completely unnatural, and hurts your attempt at generating maximum force.

Yes, but then that force is consistent. If you add dumbbells it give you weight to swing, thus giving you a higher jump.[/quote]

Read what you just wrote, think about it, and get back to us.

[quote]jtrinsey wrote:
Carnage wrote:
And you think that’s bad (Yes, I agree X-vests are way more suited to minimize added momentum)? You obviously haven’t seen Iverson doing DB squats, that is 1/4 DB squats, on those vibrating plate-like thingies.

Actually some very interesting research done by Bosco over in Italy on the use of vibrational platforms. Haven’t read to into it, but I know they were going over it a lot on the Charlie Francis boards. If my memory serves me correct, the intended application was isometric holds.

Could be shit, might not be. But a lot of people on this site seem to think they know everything about training. I wonder why they aren’t getting paid to train pro athletes?[/quote]

Exactly. I’ve seen some pro strength coaches do some boneheaded things with their athletes, but this isn’t one of them. People need to chill and realize there’s a reason these guys do what they do.

I’m aware of those studies and their results. Wasn’t Bosco affiliated to the manufacturing company of powerplates? When those studies surfaced, the fitness market got overflowed with these things. I’m sure that powerplates have some beneficial qualities (like rehab), but there is also a significant amount of studies rejecting the notion of “vibrational training” having some additional qualities over other much used methods. If it hasn’t some edge over older but tried and tested methods, then why should you use it and buy some more expensive equipment? Isometric holds on powerplates are one thing, but I don’t think it’s the be all and end all in sprinting or any kind of athletic movement.

Maybe I am an arrogant prick that thinks he knows everything about training, maybe I’m not. The only thing we know for sure is that I commented on doing 1/4 squats on a powerplate.

Anyway, enough of this internet warrior-ing, come on AI, you can squat a little bit deeper than that!

WhiteFlash you have no idea what your talking about.

BrownAb had it exactly right, he was wasted and he still understood what I was talking about.

When Roy is jumping he raises the dumbells BEFORE he extends his hips, knees and ankles.

This means that the muscles of the shoulder are lifting the weight… the reason they are doing the box jumps to begin with is to work on developing power in the large muscles of the hips, thighs and lower leg.

This is exactly why olympic lifting movements are so beneficial… the majority of the force imparted to the bar is via the HIP EXTENSORS, not the shoulder.