T Nation

Nick Berg

What is everyone’s take on this horrid act?

It seems like a lot of people are blaming this murder of an American citizen on the atrocities in Abu Ghraib prison by our armed forces.

Although what our troops did in that prison were very wrong, Al Quiada would have done this anyway!

Your last sentence sums up my feelings exactly. they are evil.

One man’s terrorist is another man’s patriot. Its that simple. If this guy doesn’t want his head cut off, maybe he shouldn’t be waltzing around in a war zone. I feel for this man’s family simply because of the death and the manner of death. Nobody wants to lose their kid. Nobody especially wants a videotape of their kid’s beheading. Its another sad story in a long list of sad stories.

I’m sorry, but if the Chinese were walking around with AK-47’s down the street because they felt they had a better way of life for us Americans, if I came across a Chinaman, solider or not, he’s gonna lose his head.

I have a hard time accepting an argument that when a crime is carried out, the fault lies with anyone other than the perpetrators(sp?).

There are a number of issues with this crime:

  1. Al Qaida had no prescence in Iraq before Saddam was deposed, because as a dictator, no one was allowed to challenge his authority.

  2. Islamic fundamentalists have always hated westerners and always will, for they are sworn to destroy the west, no matter what the cost.

  3. The victim was not a soldier, he was a civilian, when a civilian is killed, there is no political agenda, it is a murder, plain and simple.

I do not believe for one second that the murder was motivated by the maltreatment of prisoners, but, it sure does give the extremists plenty of ammunition to attack the US with.

I have to agree with Bonzo. Berg was there trying to sell his services. That act can be construed as misguided and/or stupid but, it was his decision to go. However, the 5 men had nothing to gain by killing him. He wasn’t a soldier or an “independent contractor” working for the coalition. He was just some guy, as far as we know.

It is very disturbing to know the type of barbarism these extremists will resort to. The abuses at the prison pale in comparison. In fact, all of the abuses combined may not equal the sheer disregard for human life as this one act.

I just saw the execution - it made me numb. There is no excuse for what those towel-headed cowards did.
I’ll agree with Lucid in that you take your life in your own hands being over there, but these were not angry Iraqis doing the killing. These were UBL’s bitches.

Yes the act sucks but he went into a war ravaged country where terrorists are carrying out suicide missions, kidnapping people left and right and executing them. Most of the reports state he was held by the US government then his family then sued to try to get him released. He was told to leave and they even had a plane ticket for him. He choose to go back in. I feel for his family and friends but he put himself out there for this to happen.

Zarqawi is not an Iraqi. He is from Jordan. Iraq is not even remotely “his” land.

It was a cowardly act, just like those committed on 9/11/01, Daniel Pearl in 02, the first WTC bombing in 93, Pan Am flight 103, TWA flight 847.

All cowardly acts committed by religious extremist cowards.

COWARDS COWARDS COWARDS

And that’s all I have to say about that.

I have to agree with Lucid on this one. Im not saying its right or justifying it, but when you don’t have tanks, planes, and other high tech weaponry you will resort to guerrila warfare and terrorist tactics. Also like lucid said if some extremist islamists were occupying America there would be no punches pulled! I would be cutting off heads, arms, legs, whatever I had to!

E1, please engage brain before utilizing keyboard. Thank you.

Damici
Fuck you very much!

We have allowed these extremists to have hope. When they have hope they will try anything to win. They will try and scare us politically to leave and force popular support against us.

We must take away all hope they have of defeating us by utilizing overwhelming military force. Overt for the civilians to witness and covert by taking out the extremists individually.

To be quiet honest we have held back and maybe now we shouldn’t any longer. In reality how long do you think it would take the 4th armored division to take Fallujah. I’d say it would take less then 48 hrs.

In the end the local poulation has to want change. We cannot accept anything else for our own safety. They can want change out of love of the USA or fear. We can’t make them love us but we can make them fear us. Making them love us has never worked in the past 100 years.

I saw that video last night, the whole thing. It is probably the most shocking thing I’ve ever seen. It really enraged me to see that happen to him.

These assholes’ brains are really warped and twisted by their beliefs. I heard that they were saying “Abu Bakr” or something of that nature. Does that mean “God is great?”

hedo, you hit the nail on the fucking HEAD, chief.

To reitierate what somebody said earlier. He was in Iraq doing some independent telecommuncations work. That alone, right there says it all. He wasn’t part of the red cross or some charitable group like that, he was just doing some independent work. Come on. I feel for his family, but if that isint asking for it? WHAT IS? ITS IRAQ. IRAQ. WHY WOULD YOU EVER GO TO IRAQ?? ITS A FREAKING BATTLEZONE.

Apparently he was in custody of US Forces, who wanted to fly him out. But he said no. Thats a death wish, and nothing more.

Yes, the act was brutal, cruel, inhumane and just mind-numbing, but these people are religious fanatics. This proabably didnt even phase them!

Whether they are mistreating us, we are mistreating them, doesnt even matter. An American civilian knowlingly went into Iraq fully aware of the ramifications. He made HIS choice.

Dressed like that, she was asking for it.

I call Bullshit.

I call Bullshit on all of those who claim that Nick Berg should have expected this to happen. I call Bullshit on the people that insinuate that we should not be shocked or angry about the crime that was committed.

The long and short of the issue is:

Nick was a non-combatant. He was the kind of person that the Iraqis desperately need. He was over there to do business with the Iraqis. For Iraq to become a viable nation they will have to trade. They don’t have to trade on our terms. Very few countries do (even so-called Western nations, e.g. France).

This level of extremism is an aberration. No matter where it occurs and to whom it occurs. Terrorism of that level is never justified. That is the basis of the reasoning behind the Geneva Convention. There are a lot of ways to find a guerilla war without resorting to that sort of barbarism.

This is just Al Qaeda turning up the heat to elicit the same response they received in Somalia, and Fallujah. Wholesale control of the military by the political soft-handedness of the US public.

Fuck’em. Push back.

wlk

He wasn’t a soldier or an “independent contractor” working for the coalition. He was just some guy, as far as we know. It is very disturbing to know the type of barbarism these extremists will resort to. The abuses at the prison pale in comparison. In fact, all of the abuses combined may not equal the sheer disregard for human life as this one act.

I think it is important to keep some things in mind…

  1. Rightly or wrongly, they do have reasons for hating us. They believe we are evil or that we hate or persecute them as well. They might be mistaken, or merely victims of propaganda or religious brainwashing, but they believe it.

  2. The world views between us and them are very different. Their beliefs and values allow life to take a lower place on the list of important things than we would like. Our lives anyway.

  3. Our current method of “saving” the Iraqis is not making many friends. Sure, you can thumb your nose at the entire world, but it isn’t productive. Maybe this will change over time?

So, with all that bullshit out of the way, the beheading is just another sadistic and depraved act in a region suffering from a lot of them. Does it really make a difference? Is it really worse than blowing up trains in Spain?

If the only reason you give a shit about this particular act is because of the citizenship of the victim, give your head a shake.

Short of nuking the entire region devoid of human life, can anyone tell me what path of escalating violence will make a difference? There is no way to “win” a modern war – the resistance can never be eliminated by killing those that are detected.

It’s all just depressing. Get ready for more of it. Get ready for increasingly radicalized viewpoints from the East and the West. Get ready for more hatred and violence.

Now, I know some of you are about to pipe up and say, you can’t just roll over and play dead – they would love to kill you. I’m not advocating all will be lovey dovey. I’m not saying we should just kiss and make up. It’s not black and white; don’t put my statements in that light.

All I am trying to say is that blind violence merely begets more blind violence. We need to think, we need to develop strategies that build to a more productive future and I don’t think we really have any right now. If we do, somebody please explain them to me.

All I see is the imposition of a police state in Iraq so that terrorist acts can be combatted over there instead of over here. Is that good enough?

Which came first? The chicken or the egg?