T Nation

NH_Watts' TRT Log


Shbg would help. How are you feeling? Simple step would be to lower your T dose mildly. You speak of a trough day but you don’t truly have one with twice per week injection.


I feel pretty damn good at this dose but could be better. Getting my E2 from 57 to 40 has been dramatic. Endo didnt really care about that. He said I should be shooting for mid-normal range with Test. I was considering dropping it back to 100mg a week to see how I felt but now that I am dropping the AI for 4 weeks I dont want to change too much all at once.

As for trough days I really just mean the day of my next shot. But yeah at E3.5D its not bottoming out.


Like I just said to Hostile, the Endo wants me to drop my RC anastrozole for 4 weeks, get bloods, and take it from there. He will probably ask that I drop my Test to 50mg E3.5D and test again after 6 weeks. Wants to see me again in July to discuss. Said if appropriate we can talk about an anastrozole prescription at that point.

He said if I want him to work with me then this is where we have to start. He obv doesn’t like the idea of a non prescribed drug. I think this is my leap of faith as a test to see if I am manageable. Maybe its the price I have to pay for proper care. Not sure yet. Im going to give him a go at the behest of my wife who is quite concerned about the whole thing. She knows that if this Endo doesn’t work out (my second one) I am reluctant to continue to try and search for a doctor who is agreeable. She knows about mens clinics but doesn’t like the out-of-pocket factor. She is upset that my PCP put me on without running all of the necessary test for pituitary etc to determine true hypergonadism. I told her that getting me on Test and balancing me out a bit probably saved our marriage. That put it a bit more in perspective for her.


TRT isn’t about getting everything in ranges, it’s about the doctor being able to look at the labs and interpret their meaning, your doctor looks at them and sees a bunch of ranges and numbers, he doesn’t understand what the numbers mean.

So you are going to teach the doctor how to do TRT or hope someday he gets it? You’re choosing a mediocre life as a cost saving incentive, people seem to put a low priority of their health and yet spend thousands on nice cars, houses and gotto have that new iPhone every 2 years.


Yeah treating the numbers and not the patient is a huge issue. I won’t allow it. I’m not going to teach him how to do TRT but I also won’t allow myself to be pushed into feeling like garbage again. Dropping the AI will be bad over the next 4 weeks but hopefully he does the right thing after the next blood work. My wife is fully aware that if this doesn’t work out I/we will start paying out of pocket for proper care.

We are definitely NOT people of endless means but do ok for one working parent but we budget. If we can have insurance cover the whole thing then that would help. We have to at least try.


Are you keeping your dose the same? Your free test is high. Why don’t you get it into the top of normal range and see where your e2 lies there.

SHBG is always good to get. But we can see your free test is high, so can assume its not super high. I would lower my dose! Have you tried 100mg a week no ai?


My dose has been the same since January 9th. I was at 100mg for about 6 weeks before that in Nov and Dec and was still feeling low T symptoms. However, I was injecting E7D at that point and IM. So my dose was upped AND I also moved to SQ E3.5 days. Sounds like maybe in conjunction this just pushed me too far with the test. Endo has me coming off of anastrozole in order to measure E2 in 4 weeks. Do you think I should drop my dose as well? I try not to change too many things at the same time but maybe my current dose IS just too high SQ E3.5Ds. Maybe dropping the dose will also keep my E2 lower over the next 12 weeks until I see him again. Otherwise I might be hurting when my E2 starts cruising back up to 57.


You have to remember that when you switch to 2x a week dosing, you are essentially increasing your dose. So you will get a higher trough TT with 50mg twice a week, vs 100mg once a week. So your TT is going to be higher.

I think you should go to 50mg twice a week, sub q. Keep it simple.

You basically increased your dose twice by injecting more and increasing the actual amount injected, no wonder your having E2 problems.

If you still have higher e2 symptoms on 50mg twice a week, it might be something as simple as eating some more cruciferous vegetables, some zinc, or a little DIM.

Are you overweight???


I think you are right. And yeah…I was so focused on getting my T higher to feel better I guess I cruised right over where I needed to be.

I’m 5’11 @ 227lb. (237 Feb 2nd) I have a significant amount of muscle though but would probably feel better if I lost 10-20 lbs. I have never been lean despite hard lifting 3-4 days a week, HIIT 2 days a week, running, eating well, lowering calories, etc. It might have always been T related. Dropping fat has always been very very hard and gaining fat always very easy. That being said my body has starting to lean out over the last couple of months as well as LBM coming on fairly easily. All of my lifts are skyrocketing and I’m setting PRs in most month after month.


Number not so much concerned with regarding weight, more concerned with like you said, you could lose 10-20 of fat. That would help with the e2.

I know what you mean about cruising through the sweet spot. I know I always have that urge to be at the top of the range for TT, but if I go to high, I start having the e2 sypmtoms and it negates the good feeling. So I had/have to dial it back a little.


Yeah it’s coming off pretty steadily now so I should be quite a bit leaner in the next couple of months.

Thank you for your time and insight alphagunner.


At endo’s request have dropped RC anastrozole as of Monday’s injection and have also dropped my testosterone by 25mg so 50mg SQ E3.5D with no AI (125mg->100mg a week). Labs in 4 weeks and consult with endo once he gets results. Next step from there.

Most recent labs:
Total T (LC/MS/MS): 1180 (250-1100)
Free T : 223 (35-155)
Estrodiol USensitive (LC/MS/MS): 40 (<29)

Have felt amazingly upbeat the last few days. Libido is still great and mental clarity returning slowly. NOT a great week in the gym but strong. I deload next week and hit PRs last week so I think my CNS is a little frazzled this week. BUT it hasnt affected my attitude…I just moved on.


Interested to see where your labs are in 4 weeks.


Been using my new KSman recommended digital thermometer (Clinical Basal Thermometer - BBT-113Ai by iProvèn - ACCURATE 1/100th Degree, Highly SENSITIVE) for the past two days and the results, so far, are pretty much where I thought they would be after realizing my other thermometers were complete shit. Am temp is at waking, at 5:15a, before getting out of bed and PM temps are at 3p.

5/14 = 97.54 am
98.00 pm
5/15 = 97.20 am
98.13 pm

I ordered 50mg lodoral iodine along with 100mcg selenium. My multi already has 100mcg. I will start taking 25mg a day of the iodine and ramp up to 50mg until I hit 750mg.

FWIW, I dropped anastrozole 3 weeks ago, and also dropped my test (by 25mg a week) to 50mg E3.5D. I have been extremely lethargic especially mid morning, mid afternoon, and evenings. I fall asleep at the dinner table most nights. If I close my eyes I fall asleep. I wonder if the higher T dose was masking all this.


besides lethargy, any high e2 symptoms?


The only thing I can’t attribute to an iodine deficiency is a slight decrease in libido. Erectile function seems fine, albeit with less spontaneous erections, and testes still hanging better than when my E2 was around 60. I also would say I haven’t had many days in the last month where I felt a real zest for life. I used to get days at a time but now I will get 15 minutes or so here and there. So not really depression (which could be high E2 or iodine) but just kind of blah. But could the libido decrease just be from the lowered test dosage and my body readjusting?

Im having labs done next week for the new Endo. Interested to see where I stand. He actually suggested I come off of the kelp supplement. I not sure if quitting 125mcg a day could shitcan my iodine in 3 weeks…I think Ive just been treading water with the supps and not getting it where it needs to be.

Also to note, even after having been on T since before the the beginning of the year, I never lost that fog. I still have memory issues and trouble concentrating. I was thinking maybe it would just take time to shake it off but now with the low temps it makes a bit more sense.


Some signs of a correction here.

5/14 - am - 97.54, pm - 98.00
5/15 - am - 97.20, pm - 98.13
5/16 - am - 97.23, pm 97.97
5/17 - am - 97.8
started 50mg daily of IRT
5/18 - am - 97.57, pm - 97.59
5/19 - am - 97.57, pm - 97.6
5/20 - am - 98.13, pm - 98.34
5/21 - am - 97.44, pm - 98.4
5/22 - am - 96.9, pm - 97.8
5/23 - am - 97.21, pm - 98.2
5/24 - am - 96.98, pm - 98.02
5/25 - am - 97.41, pm - 98.7
5/27 - am - ., pm - 98.2
5/28 - am - 97.71, pm - 97.82
5/29 - am - 97.03, pm - 98.31
5/30 - am - 97.21, pm - 98.27


Added new temps to bring up to date. Coming up on 750mg of Iodoral Iodine, @ 50mg a day, supplemented. I think things look better but still not really stable. @KSman should I continue or stop at 750mg per your rec in the sticky? Has anyone else continued on at 50mg a day and did temps eventually stabilize? I have read that some supplement with that every day forever.


Imo if your low temps were caused by iodine defeciency you have soaked your thyroid with iodine at this point. So I would stop after the recommended total amount. And over the next few weeks see what happens.

I mean they give high doses during radiologic releases to basically shut down your thyroid. I would not keep taking


Thanks for the reply Charlie. I think that the doses are much higher for cancer patients if I remember correctly. AND I think that I read that the body can hold upwards of 1.5g of iodine and 750mg alone in the thyroid so if I was deficient (yes based on temps) then I am just on the road to full replenishment. That being said I dont want to fuck myself up either. Im feeling a bit better, less tired during the day and just an overall sense of happy that has increased over the last few weeks. Could be the weather.