T Nation

NH_Watts' TRT Log


#600

From what I have seen, and what other say, the non sensitive test slightly overstates.

So I would assume that your sensitive E2 is lower than non sensitive.

I always show up in the 30’s on the non sensitive test, and when I tested Ultrasensetive, it said my E2 was 22


#601

Thank you. I wonder if some of my issues are low E2 to “my body” kind of issues…I don’t actively take anything to try to lower my E2, but I do eat a lot of broccoli, inject sub q EOD and take 4mg Cialis daily (when I can remember).

I could try shallow IM with a higher dose or just stay the course and address thyroid first.

@charlie12, have you noticed any improvement after starting thyroid meds?


#602

All three of those lower or control E2.

I have a higher SHBG so I feel like any lower fluctuation in e2 I can feel. So I switched to IM and I like it better. I HATE having to inject into muscle, but I feel better. I may switch back to SQ if at any point I feel like im too high or too high e2.


#603

Well that makes sense why things didn’t improve when I took 8mg Cialis a few days in a row, took DIM and CDG.

Guess I need to increase dose a little and lay off some things that control or reduce E2. I really want to feel like I did over the summer, it was amazing.


#604

I believe the study showed Cialis maybe lowers it very very little. I take daily Cialis for almost a year and e2 fine.

I think the daily lemon juice and perhaps excessive brussel sprouts may have done it for me. Also I stopped the fiber caps called citrucel. It is a bulk forming fiber. And I was taking extra zinc which lowers e2. I only take extra on days of injection just because I think zinc is great.

Sprouts have allot of cdg


#605

Get any feedback? Other than cutting out sugar, focusing on protein, and using complex carbs I dont know how to eat anymore. I especially dont know how to eat on TRT. This is coming from me trying everything under the sun to drop fat in the past and nothing working. Maybe they will ALL work at this point but I want to do whats best for me being optimized.


#606

Thumbs up for that… I have no idea what the right things are to eat either. I just try to eat a salad a day, some chicken, some veggies and a protein shake… While limiting my junk food.

I dropped about 20lbs in the first 4-6 months in trt with exercise/IF… But I’ve stopped losing weight now. Wondering if top of range TSH could be a contributing factor?

Speaking of which, I’m heading back to the doctor Monday for more thyroid blood work. Thanks for letting me post here and giving me feedback, hopefully I can get this sorted out. I could have sworn I was having high E2 issues… But it came back at 25.6… So, who knows.


#607

I have recieved ZERO feedback.


#608

Keto has done wonders for me. Well…I would call it “modified” keto. This is how I’ve implemented it and the same basic principals of all common sense dieting should apply (eat less total calories than you burn to lose weight, eat more to gain etc…)

First figure out your daily rmr. Let’s say 2500 kcal for example purposes. If you weigh 185 lbs and have 15%BF, then your LBM is 157lbs.

To burn fat an lose as little muscle as possible…
Eat a 20% reduction (2000 kcal).
20g Carbs (always a fixed number) = 80 kcal

0.8 - 1g Protein per lb of LBM (125 - 157g). Let’s hit the middle there at 140g which = 560 kcal

Then the rest of your calories in high quality fats. So… 80 + 560 = 640 (Protein and carbs)

This leaves 2000 - 640 = 1360

Fats will be 1360 / 9 = 151g

So for this hypothetical, you would eat

20g Carbs
140g Protein
151g Fat
2000 calories

Can’t speak for everyone, but for me…it just works. Now keep in mind that all of these numbers change every few weeks as you body changes as well.

If you are trying to gain, then up the protein intake to 1 - 1.5g per lb of LBM, and increase the total calories by 15 - 20%.

Here’s the last ingredient to this plan and it’s pretty crucial… As you work out during the week, you are depleting your muscle glycogen stores and not replenishing them due to the reduced carb intake, so don’t DESTROY your muscles. Just properly fatigue them. Then, every 7 days, eat one meal that’s is carb LOADED (100-200g). This will replenish the muscle glycogen stores for the next week, and since your body has adapted to using ketones for fuel, the carbs from that meal will go almost completely into refilling the muscle glycogen stores. It’s almost like a 7 day contest prep except that you don’t want to gorge water and then taper off. Keep the water intake steady all the time.

Final note…If anyone reading decides to follow this template (hopefully adjusting the numbers for their own stats lol), make sure that you drink a cup or so of chicken broth everyday for the first week or so. This will make the adaption process easier and help avoid the dreaded “keto flu”.

Following this plan, and working out 5 days a week also doing cardio for 15min x 3 a week, so far I have gone from this…

To this…

I’m no Arnold by any means, but all in all I’d say that it’s not too bad for a pre diabetic 41 yr old with primary hypogonadism lol.


#609

I thought I read that ketogenic diets werent good on TRT? Looking great by the way. You should update your log with the new pic.


#610

Thanks brother I really appreciate that.

I haven’t read anything specific about any negative effects from Keto on TRT? I haven’t had any issues that I know of since I started keto about 8 weeks ago, but I did just have blood drawn yesterday for my Defy Intake. I will keep that in mind when I do my consultation when the labs come back and discuss that with the doc. I’ll post an update back here on what I find out.


#611

Cool thanks. Im not opposed to keto, ive done it several times in the past. Im a bit opposed to counting all macros and calories. I find it overwhelms me and eventually stresses me out.


#612

You don’t count calories at all? How do you maintain mass, just eat when hungry? I have serious problems maintaining mass (could have been the low T too) when I don’t eat at least 3000 calories.


#613

Not at all. But I can eye 4, 5, 6oz of protein and know from sight what 40g of carbs looks like. I also know how to fill caloric voids with fats, etc. I have spent so many years counting and tracking that I understand innately what I am packing for food and what my macros are. I can tell you that on any given day I am eating between 2200 and 3200 cals and usually somewhere in between around 2600-2800 with a ratio of 40p/30c/30f. I do not need to try to keep mass on me.

Intermittent fasting on 3 days a week has been working pretty well and seems to shed fat pretty well. That being said I am at the gym 7 days a week and may finally be optimized in regard to TRT so lots of moving parts.


#614

I must have ADD, I always doubt that I actually ate enough at the end of the day unless I track. Need to work on structuring more I guess.


#615

I pack my food in the morning before the gym. I KNOW I am packing around 2k calories. Then I just round it out with dinner.


#616

I track all mine with the Keto App Tracker. I manually set all of my macro limits, and just log food as I eat it. It gives me a visual of where I’m at and what I have left during the day. It’s really easy when I pack my food for the day, but sometimes I go to work in areas where I don’t have the ability (or its way too inconvenient) to go get my box and find a microwave. On those days, it’s nice to have the app because I can just go to Burger King and grab a bacon king burger plain and just take it off the bun. The macros for that configuration are already in the app so I just point to it and add it to my meals for the day. Easy peasy.

I don’t trust myself enough to eyeball it. My eyes have always been bigger than my stomach lol!


#617

Well its kind of hard to overdue it with almonds, chicken, brown rice, broccoli, steak, salad etc.


#618

I think a lot of guys cut out carbs stupidly. If you’re hard training, eat carbs. White rice and potatoes are great. Don’t fuck with Keto. Especially real keto (70% cals from fat) your performance will eat dick. Also carbs raise serotonin. eliminating entire macronutrients is insane. I’ll type out what I typically eat tomorrow when I have a chance.

Eat white rice. Not brown


#619

I would REALLY appreciate that doc. I do tend to choose brown rice and even chose brown rice sushi today for lunch.