NFL's Top 100 Players

[quote]haas wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:
We, I checked out #100-91 on some website and I was shocked to see Michael Irvin at #92. I fucking hate the Cowboys, but I saw that guy torch the Niners back in the 90’s so many times I can’t believe he’s only #92. How many receivers are greater than him? Not many. Rice obviously, maybe Cris Carter and Randy Moss. But come on! Are they going to rank Lynn Swann and Fred Biletnikoff ahead of him? What’s next? Curtis Martin ranked ahead of Barry Sanders?[/quote]

T.O.
Steve Largent
Bruce and Holt
Harrison
Andre Reed
Tim Brown
Rod Smith
I’m sure there is some old timers to add to this list
[/quote]

I wouldn’t rank any of these guys above Irvin. None of them are the game-changers that Irvin was, except for maybe T.O. and Harrison, but neither of those two were the on-field and locker room leaders that Irvin was either. I don’t think T.O. or Brown or really made any of the other players around them a whole lot better. Plus, Irvin didn’t play in the frequent 3-receiver spreads and the highly pass-oriented offenses that a lot of these guys played in. He played in a primarily power-running offense. I-formations, lots of two-tight end formations, and a steady diet of Emmitt. Plus, the fucker’s got three rings.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NFL_records_held_by_Jerry_Rice

that’s all I have to say.

[quote]abcd1234 wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NFL_records_held_by_Jerry_Rice

that’s all I have to say. [/quote]

That’s what I’m talking about. Any player who has a separate wikipedia page just for all his records should be AT LEAST top 5. I’d put him at #1 or 2, interchangeable with Jim Brown.

#1 = Jerry Rice. Period.

Jerry rice has gotta be top 5. Chris carter, troy aikman, joe montana, steve young, tim brown, mean joe greene, emmitt smith, barry sanders, dick butkus, night train lane, ray lewis, ed reed, brian dawkins.

[quote]overstand wrote:
I hate these lists because nobody can ever decide on a criteria. A lot of the all time great old timers ie Johnny Unitas and Jim Brown were great back then and put up crazy stats but they’d get smoked if they tried to play today. Also I think Joe Montana is consensus best QB of all time (Payton Manning might pass him up by the time he retires) but a lot of QBs will be ranked higher than Dan Marino because he doesnt have a super bowl ring even though he was much better. And Brett Favre will probably be ranked way too high just because hes a likable guy and he has a few records, but they won’t mention he also has the record for most interceptions and most times sacked and only got the others through sheer volume of play.

and lol @ Mark Sanchez, he sucks [/quote]

Apparently the fact that you were polesmoking your bf last Sunday didnt allow you to catch the Jets embarrasing the Patriots, at the hands of the Sanchize.

#1 Joe Montana
#2 Jim Brown
#3 Jerry Rice

After that it gets cloudy for me, greatest players as opposed to greatest champions, what’s more important.

That list is going to be stacked with Steelers that’s for sure. They better have Jack Ham near the top. One of the best, Lambert got all the glory with his personna but Ham was the shit.

I can never make up my mind about where Emmit Smith should be ranked on these lists.

[quote]overstand wrote:
I hate these lists because nobody can ever decide on a criteria. A lot of the all time great old timers ie Johnny Unitas and Jim Brown were great back then and put up crazy stats but they’d get smoked if they tried to play today. Also I think Joe Montana is consensus best QB of all time (Payton Manning might pass him up by the time he retires) but a lot of QBs will be ranked higher than Dan Marino because he doesnt have a super bowl ring even though he was much better. And Brett Favre will probably be ranked way too high just because hes a likable guy and he has a few records, but they won’t mention he also has the record for most interceptions and most times sacked and only got the others through sheer volume of play.

and lol @ Mark Sanchez, he sucks [/quote]

^^ you, sir, are certifiably retarded if you think Jim Brown would “get smoked” today.

Also Bret Favre DOESN’T hold the NFL record for being sacked the most times… He’s 5th on that list. Oh and as far as “having a few records” goes… Try most passing yards ever and most TD passes ever… Yeah just a few little records there lol.

Number 1 should/will be Joe Montana. From there on it’s pretty subjective but in the top 5 should be Rice (I’d say number 2) Brown, Walter Payton and Laurence Taylor.

Not really sure how I would want to rank them but they were all amazing players. Have to put Chris Carter, Reggie White, berry Sanders and Dan Marino in the top 10.

FTR I am not a Brett favre fan.

I like the show, but I can already see the BS coming. They’ll rank guys that are active and only been in the league a hand full of years way to high. I think everyone on the list should be retired, but that’s just me.

Ex. Tom Brady will be in top 25 guaranteed and dudes been in the league what less then 10 years.

Edit: Oh and I don’t think super bowl wins should even be a consideration. How many mediocre players have multiple rings because they had amazing talent around them. Just sayin.

I don’t get these people who are putting Cris Carter and Dan Marino and some of these others in the top ten. Cris Carter isn’t even top 50. Marino might be top 30. But there is no way those two belong in the same category as some of the players I’ve heard mentioned with them. I can think of a lot of quarterbacks who were greater than Marino. Hell, he wasn’t even the best of his generation. Montana and Elway rank higher than him.

And what about Unitas? Perhaps the only quarterback who can lay claim to the title of Greatest QB ever, other than Montana, Elway and maybe Favre. Shit, I’d put Elway, Montana, Favre, Brady, Manning, Starr, Unitas and maybe even a guy like Aikman and Young ahead of Marino.

Now with Carter, there’s only a couple of receivers who I think were better than him: Rice, Irvin, maybe Marvin Harrison or Randy Moss. But there’s a couple dozen offensive players outside of the receiver position I’d rank ahead of Carter. Payton, Sanders, Sayers, Emmitt Smith, OJ, Kellen Winslow, Larry Allen, Anthony Munoz, maybe a couple other offensive linemen I can’t think of right now, plus ALL of the QB’s mentioned above.

Then take into account defensive stalwarts like Ray Lewis, Reggie White, LT, Ronnie Lott, Woodson, Deion, half the fucking Steelers defense from the 70’s, Deacon Jones, Butkus and some others and there are a hell of a lot of players who should rank ahead of Carter and Marino.

Here’s my top twenty, with an obvious priority placed on QBs. They’re the most important position to a team’s success so they deserve a little higher spot than a lot of other players.

1.Jerry Rice
2.Jim Brown
3.Joe Montana
4.Johnny Unitas
5.Lawrence Taylor
6.John Elway
7.Dick Butkus
8.Walter Payton
9.Reggie White
10.Mean Joe Greene
11.Tom Brady
12.Barry Sanders
13.Brett Favre
14.Ray Lewis
15.Deacon Jones
16.Peyton Manning
17.Emmitt Smith
18.Kellen Winslow
19.Ronnie Lott
20.Bart Starr

I’m sure there’s some older guys I left out, but fuck 'em.

[quote]redstar144 wrote:

[quote]WolBarret wrote:

[quote]redstar144 wrote:
Derrick Thomas better be in the top twenty. Total beast.[/quote]

There’s football in Ireland?[/quote]

Nope, but you find the odd hero like myself who follows football and supports his team through the thick and thin. We have Gaelic Football but its a totally different sport.[/quote]

WOW WOW WOW WRONG, excuse me but we have had a league of our own since 1985.

heres a link to the irish american football league

for the record I play for Tullamore Phoenix’s. we won our league last year.

[quote]B-Man wrote:

[quote]redstar144 wrote:

[quote]WolBarret wrote:

[quote]redstar144 wrote:
Derrick Thomas better be in the top twenty. Total beast.[/quote]

There’s football in Ireland?[/quote]

Nope, but you find the odd hero like myself who follows football and supports his team through the thick and thin. We have Gaelic Football but its a totally different sport.[/quote]

WOW WOW WOW WRONG, excuse me but we have had a league of our own since 1985.

heres a link to the irish american football league

for the record I play for Tullamore Phoenix’s. we won our league last year.
[/quote]

I am aware of the league, I took his question to mean whether football is widely followed here which it isn’t.

[quote]redstar144 wrote:

[quote]B-Man wrote:

[quote]redstar144 wrote:

[quote]WolBarret wrote:

[quote]redstar144 wrote:
Derrick Thomas better be in the top twenty. Total beast.[/quote]

There’s football in Ireland?[/quote]

Nope, but you find the odd hero like myself who follows football and supports his team through the thick and thin. We have Gaelic Football but its a totally different sport.[/quote]

WOW WOW WOW WRONG, excuse me but we have had a league of our own since 1985.

heres a link to the irish american football league

for the record I play for Tullamore Phoenix’s. we won our league last year.
[/quote]

I am aware of the league, I took his question to mean whether football is widely followed here which it isn’t.
[/quote]

Nobody cares about Irish or Gaelic football, or even Aussie rules football.

American Football is it.

Umm…Dick Butkus is Top 5…

The whole reason this show is watched because of the subjective opinions. Comparing a WR to a defensive lineman is apples to oranges. It makes good TV, but no one is going to agree.

[quote]gregron wrote:

[quote]overstand wrote:
I hate these lists because nobody can ever decide on a criteria. A lot of the all time great old timers ie Johnny Unitas and Jim Brown were great back then and put up crazy stats but they’d get smoked if they tried to play today. Also I think Joe Montana is consensus best QB of all time (Payton Manning might pass him up by the time he retires) but a lot of QBs will be ranked higher than Dan Marino because he doesnt have a super bowl ring even though he was much better. And Brett Favre will probably be ranked way too high just because hes a likable guy and he has a few records, but they won’t mention he also has the record for most interceptions and most times sacked and only got the others through sheer volume of play.

and lol @ Mark Sanchez, he sucks [/quote]

^^ you, sir, are certifiably retarded if you think Jim Brown would “get smoked” today.

Also Bret Favre DOESN’T hold the NFL record for being sacked the most times… He’s 5th on that list. Oh and as far as “having a few records” goes… Try most passing yards ever and most TD passes ever… Yeah just a few little records there lol.

Number 1 should/will be Joe Montana. From there on it’s pretty subjective but in the top 5 should be Rice (I’d say number 2) Brown, Walter Payton and Laurence Taylor.

Not really sure how I would want to rank them but they were all amazing players. Have to put Chris Carter, Reggie White, berry Sanders and Dan Marino in the top 10.

FTR I am not a Brett favre fan. [/quote]

My point was Brett Favre only has the records because hes played for so god damn long. He has the good records but he has the bad ones too.

And Jim Brown might be able to play today, but he wouldn’t put up near the numbers he did back then. The reason he was so good is because he was the biggest fastest dude in the league. Today he’d be a run of the mill RB. Sort of like Wilt Chamberlain in basketball, dude has crazy stats but the game just wasn’t what it is today. There were no Dwight Howards defending him back then, he basically did w/e he wanted all game long. It seems like everyone puts Jim Brown #1 all time just because everybody else does.

The list is down to 60 now. Randy Moss is 65. I wouldn’t be surprised if Cris Carter gets snubbed completely, he already got snubbed for the Hall of Fame a couple times.

This is my fav

[quote]overstand wrote:

[quote]gregron wrote:

[quote]overstand wrote:
I hate these lists because nobody can ever decide on a criteria. A lot of the all time great old timers ie Johnny Unitas and Jim Brown were great back then and put up crazy stats but they’d get smoked if they tried to play today. Also I think Joe Montana is consensus best QB of all time (Payton Manning might pass him up by the time he retires) but a lot of QBs will be ranked higher than Dan Marino because he doesnt have a super bowl ring even though he was much better. And Brett Favre will probably be ranked way too high just because hes a likable guy and he has a few records, but they won’t mention he also has the record for most interceptions and most times sacked and only got the others through sheer volume of play.

and lol @ Mark Sanchez, he sucks [/quote]

^^ you, sir, are certifiably retarded if you think Jim Brown would “get smoked” today.

Also Bret Favre DOESN’T hold the NFL record for being sacked the most times… He’s 5th on that list. Oh and as far as “having a few records” goes… Try most passing yards ever and most TD passes ever… Yeah just a few little records there lol.

Number 1 should/will be Joe Montana. From there on it’s pretty subjective but in the top 5 should be Rice (I’d say number 2) Brown, Walter Payton and Laurence Taylor.

Not really sure how I would want to rank them but they were all amazing players. Have to put Chris Carter, Reggie White, berry Sanders and Dan Marino in the top 10.

FTR I am not a Brett favre fan. [/quote]

My point was Brett Favre only has the records because hes played for so god damn long. He has the good records but he has the bad ones too.

And Jim Brown might be able to play today, but he wouldn’t put up near the numbers he did back then. The reason he was so good is because he was the biggest fastest dude in the league. Today he’d be a run of the mill RB. Sort of like Wilt Chamberlain in basketball, dude has crazy stats but the game just wasn’t what it is today. There were no Dwight Howards defending him back then, he basically did w/e he wanted all game long. It seems like everyone puts Jim Brown #1 all time just because everybody else does.

The list is down to 60 now. Randy Moss is 65. I wouldn’t be surprised if Cris Carter gets snubbed completely, he already got snubbed for the Hall of Fame a couple times.

[/quote]

If Jim Brown were simply picked up out of nowhere and placed into today’s league, of course he would get dominated now. All of today’s players are bigger, better and faster than they were ten years ago, twenty years ago, fifty years ago, etc etc.

But if Jim Brown were born say 25 years ago and grew up with all the same advances in nutrition, weight-lifting, training in general and so on, of course he’d dominate now. He was a supreme talent. Don’t forget he’s also one of the greatest collegiate lacrosse players of all-time.

If you simply look at a player, in ANY sport, from previous generations and surmise that he wouldn’t succeed nowadays based on what his size was 50 years ago, then what’s the point of any of these “greatest of all-time” discussions? By your standards, it’s entirely conceivable that the 100 greatest players in the NFL are all in the league RIGHT NOW. Even Joe Montana or Jerry Rice wouldn’t be that great anymore. Montana was great because he was accurate, moved well in the pocket and he had great composure. But at 6’2" and about 195 lbs, he would get smashed to pieces now. But of course he would bulk up more if he played today and probably sit at around 220lbs.

Jerry Rice, same thing. He was known as a “big” receiver when he first came into the league, but at 6’2" and about 205 lbs or so, that’s only about average now. But if he came into the league now, with the advances in sports medicine and training techniques available to him that weren’t around in 1985, he’d easily be able to get to 215-220 lbs and at least maintain the same speed he had, if not improve it slightly.

The point is that if a guy was the fastest guy in the league 50 years ago, or the hardest runner or had the biggest arm or whatever, there’s no reason to believe that the same player, given the talent he had, wouldn’t be able to duplicate those traits if he grew up today.

Also, how a player would fare today compared to his own generation is immaterial in this sort of discussion anyways. We aren’t talking about what players are the greatest based on today’s standards. Look at Babe Ruth in baseball: would he fare well in today’s game? Probably not. But the way he dominated his own generation HAS to make him an all-time great. No one in any sport has dominated their generation the way he did. THAT is the ultimate test when considering who the greats are. Who dominated their generation the most? If it’s purely a physical thing, like I’ve heard with Jim Brown, then 50 years from now, NO player in today’s NFL should be on the list of 100 greatest players.

Also, Wilt Chamberlain would probably still dominate today. 7-footers with LONG wingspans will always have a place in the NBA. And as far as no Dwight Howard’s being in the league when Wilt played…uh, ever heard of a guy named Bill Russell?

I get what you’re saying.

If you sent Adrian Peterson back in time hed do all the same things Jim Brown did, and probably a lot more. If you sent Jim Brown to the present and gave him all the benefits of modern medicine and training, would he still dominate like he did back then? He might be good, even great, but his numbers would still not compare proportionally to what he did in his day. He was that outrageous.

Same thing with Wilt, he might also dominate today, but he wouldn’t be putting up 100 point games or averaging 50 points a game.

So how do you compare Wilts 50ppg and 25 rpg with someone like Hakeem Olajuwon who might only average 20/10 yet still be considered dominant.

I’m not saying they are bad players, my point is its hard, maybe impossible, to compare players of different eras because the level of competition is so much different. Its not just that the players are bigger stronger and faster, there are 100x more of them. There is so much more money and so much more exposure for sports today that we will probably never see dominance of the likes of Jim Brown again. Thats why I think its unfair to call Jim Brown the greatest of all time, because the way the game is today, he will never be surpassed no matter how good someone is.

[quote]overstand wrote:

[quote]gregron wrote:

[quote]overstand wrote:
I hate these lists because nobody can ever decide on a criteria. A lot of the all time great old timers ie Johnny Unitas and Jim Brown were great back then and put up crazy stats but they’d get smoked if they tried to play today. Also I think Joe Montana is consensus best QB of all time (Payton Manning might pass him up by the time he retires) but a lot of QBs will be ranked higher than Dan Marino because he doesnt have a super bowl ring even though he was much better. And Brett Favre will probably be ranked way too high just because hes a likable guy and he has a few records, but they won’t mention he also has the record for most interceptions and most times sacked and only got the others through sheer volume of play.

and lol @ Mark Sanchez, he sucks [/quote]

^^ you, sir, are certifiably retarded if you think Jim Brown would “get smoked” today.

Also Bret Favre DOESN’T hold the NFL record for being sacked the most times… He’s 5th on that list. Oh and as far as “having a few records” goes… Try most passing yards ever and most TD passes ever… Yeah just a few little records there lol.

Number 1 should/will be Joe Montana. From there on it’s pretty subjective but in the top 5 should be Rice (I’d say number 2) Brown, Walter Payton and Laurence Taylor.

Not really sure how I would want to rank them but they were all amazing players. Have to put Chris Carter, Reggie White, berry Sanders and Dan Marino in the top 10.

FTR I am not a Brett favre fan. [/quote]

My point was Brett Favre only has the records because hes played for so god damn long. He has the good records but he has the bad ones too.

And Jim Brown might be able to play today, but he wouldn’t put up near the numbers he did back then. The reason he was so good is because he was the biggest fastest dude in the league. Today he’d be a run of the mill RB. Sort of like Wilt Chamberlain in basketball, dude has crazy stats but the game just wasn’t what it is today. There were no Dwight Howards defending him back then, he basically did w/e he wanted all game long. It seems like everyone puts Jim Brown #1 all time just because everybody else does.

The list is down to 60 now. Randy Moss is 65. I wouldn’t be surprised if Cris Carter gets snubbed completely, he already got snubbed for the Hall of Fame a couple times.

[/quote]

Yeah, but the same could be said about today’s player playin back in the old days. For example if Manning or Brady played back when you could actually hit a QB how good would they be throwing?

and as far as Favre goes, and I’m a huge fan, sure he has a lot of records because he has played so long, but isn’t that a good thing? He’s played through how many injuries and what have you to win a ton of games. I mean he holds almost every QB record and could easily have one another MVP just last season. You can’t deny he’s a great QB that should be on the list. Top 25 at least imo. Oh and I think you mentioned in a previous post he has been sacked the most…why do you think that takes away from his status as a great player? Just curious. I would think that would be on the O-line more then him.