NFL Combine Verticals

the video of the guy jumping over those high hurdles is pretty nuts.

Not saying I think Kenyans can run marathons well because they are black but because they are from east africa like I was saying. As far as I know east africans are among the worst power/speed athletes and west africans are among the worst endurance athletes. I was making the point that catagorizing just black athletes as being superior was wrong, its more specific than that. And from what I have heard about white volleyball players most max out around 36…

Shadow,

Look up Jason Ring, a former All-American at Hawaii and now on the pro beach tour. He’s 6’2" and once got stitches on his forehead from hitting his head on the rim. He’s listed as having a 44" vertical leap and I’d bet that’s accurate. I know quite a few white vball players who are going over 36".

For the record, I do believe that black people are naturally faster- just look at the 100m dash. It doesn’t change the fact that every elite-level athlete has gone through a freakish amount of training in his or her life. Nobody just walks onto the track and sets a world record.

i’ve always had trouble with the vert jump. i’ve ran track for years for training, all the good plyo’s that go along with it as well. i’m amazed when i see guys leap.
i ‘ve run hurdles for an off season, and i’ ve done jump squats with 315 lbs but i’ve never jumped higher then 26".
i can only dream.

Hmm may be an accurate vert…in any case if he is listed at 44" he probably has at least a legit 40", but in any event I just think the statistical probability of white athletes being faster, or having greater leaping ability is just much lower. There are alot more white people throughout the world that are exposed to situations where we can get a hand on their raw numbers. Just look at asians, they are, on average a good deal shorter than other races I believe, but you can get the occasional Yao Ming. I think the same applies to genetic freak athletes. Asians may be shorter on average…but out of a few billion people the statistical odds of having a taller person are just huge. Same with athletes…

To OKLAHOMA STATE,

I don’t have any statistics on hand, but I’m willing to bet that the dedication and sacrafice these elite athletes make to reach their goals are the main ingredient to their success. Yes, they’re genetically gifted. But there are many more genetically gifted people than you give credit for and you never hear about them because they simply don’t give an elite effort to develop their elite God-given abilities.

[quote]mike30 wrote:
i’ve always had trouble with the vert jump. i’ve ran track for years for training, all the good plyo’s that go along with it as well. i’m amazed when i see guys leap.
i ‘ve run hurdles for an off season, and i’ ve done jump squats with 315 lbs but i’ve never jumped higher then 26".
i can only dream.[/quote]

maybe doing jump squats with 315lbs is the problem :slight_smile:

VJ is all about speed and reflexiveness, you can’t possibly be fast and relaxed with 315lbs…
That sounds like “muscle it up” city

[quote]Panther1015 wrote:
To OKLAHOMA STATE,

I don’t have any statistics on hand, but I’m willing to bet that the dedication and sacrafice these elite athletes make to reach their goals are the main ingredient to their success. Yes, they’re genetically gifted. But there are many more genetically gifted people than you give credit for and you never hear about them because they simply don’t give an elite effort to develop their elite God-given abilities. [/quote]

exactly, its a combination of genetics AND training. you can’t be among the very best w/out both.

[quote]matsm21 wrote:
Panther1015 wrote:
To OKLAHOMA STATE,

I don’t have any statistics on hand, but I’m willing to bet that the dedication and sacrafice these elite athletes make to reach their goals are the main ingredient to their success. Yes, they’re genetically gifted. But there are many more genetically gifted people than you give credit for and you never hear about them because they simply don’t give an elite effort to develop their elite God-given abilities.

exactly, its a combination of genetics AND training. you can’t be among the very best w/out both.
[/quote]

ummmmmm u forgot nutrition and drugs.

Panther and Matsm,
I totally disagree with you. Unless by training you mean just playing their sport… Do you think the best jumpers in basketball got that way from power cleans and depth jumps? No, they got there with genetics and the stimulus of playing their sport. Thats it. Even players that are known for their work ethic, (michael jordan for one) dont gain much as far as jumping numbers I bet. They may be stronger and have better control and endurance to continue jumping from training but I doubt it increases at all.

Jason Richardson was doing 540’s in highschool, was that because of training? Im not saying players cant improve their jumping ability through training, (I think Kobe for one definitely does get up better now that in his first or second year), but that still doesnt bring him to the level of a Jason Richardson, Amare Stoudamire, or Vince Carter.

My feeling is that those last three players and others like them dont even work on jumping higher through training. So, I guess what I’m saying is some people can naturally achieve levels that are considered elite in their sport through very little to no specific training to improve an attribute such as jumping.

I think using NBA players as examples of people with great verticals is a bit misleading. The average vertical of an NBA player is typically less than that of 300lb offensive linemen at the NFL combine.

[quote]RickJames wrote:
I think using NBA players as examples of people with great verticals is a bit misleading. The average vertical of an NBA player is typically less than that of 300lb offensive linemen at the NFL combine. [/quote]

I think that statement is misleading! I would love to see statistics backing that up.

[quote]RickJames wrote:
I think using NBA players as examples of people with great verticals is a bit misleading. The average vertical of an NBA player is typically less than that of 300lb offensive linemen at the NFL combine. [/quote]

You must be just trying to spark some controversy on this thread… because you dont actually believe that do you? In any event I wasnt talking about the average NBA player… Nevermind NBA… I went to Monroe CC in Rochester, NY and played basketball there. We had some good talent and athletes but nothing like what you would find in the NBA or even a top tier D1 program. Anyway, our first play of every game was called UP, it was a back screen for an alley and probably worked 70% of the time, most of the players catching them were from 6’-6’3".

I dont think you realize how high some of these players are jumping. And they werent working hard in the gym doing cleans and jumps and this and that. They ate like shit, smoked and sat around, went to practice and went to games. Thats it. And they jumped out of the gym.

yea, I don’t think that every player that plays college ball trains for a high vertical. I would bet that players at top level d-1 programs that are trying to make it to the next level do though. they have the best trainers to help them. and in regards to other players in the ncaa and juco that can jump high without the extra work: what training did they do? they played ball. shadow, since you played juco I don’t need to tell you that goin to the park and playin 8 games in a row 3-4 days a week is a good leg workout.

[quote]CoolColJ wrote:
be aware that NFL verts aren’t legit…

In the NFL, they measure reach with 2 hands and then jump with one hand!
2 hand reach is usually 3 inches lower than a one arm reach, and more so for the taller players. Plus your body stretches as well when you jump one handed

so deduct at least 3 inches from all NFL VJ to get a more realistic VJ number…
So anyone with a 30-33 inch NFL VJ is pretty average…
Only people with 40+ NFL VJ are what you would call freaky. So that 46inch NFL VJ record is really only 43 tops, and maybe more like 40-42

NFL VJ testing method
reach measured with 2 hands

then they jump with one hand…
http://graphics.fansonly.com/photos/schools/md/galleries/m-footbl-031704/Imag0024-lg.jpg [/quote]

I’ve heard this before and wondered if it was true? Is that really the way they do it? That will add 3" for sure. I don’t see why the billion dollar empire that the NFL is can’t come up with a better test. They should be jumping up to some kind of pad that your head touches. Check the guys height then how high he can get his head up. That would be a true vertical.

Spartan,
I think thats a good point they should have a better test. Since they raise both hands then jump with one it would be different. I think the thing everyone is forgeting is that the data as far as vertical jump goes is not what it seems at all. There are so many variables that can effect the result. They dont even check to see if you are lying about your height on your license which is a government issued ID. Do you think that the data on some beach volleyball player should be taken for a fact? I dont think it matters much for those top athletes though, in terms of them being a better or worse player because everyone is measured the same way. It does matter when you get some moron that thinks a 28" vertical is terrible…very misleading.

[quote]Spartan300 wrote:
NFL VJ testing method
reach measured with 2 hands

then they jump with one hand…
http://graphics.fansonly.com/photos/schools/md/galleries/m-footbl-031704/Imag0024-lg.jpg

I’ve heard this before and wondered if it was true? Is that really the way they do it? That will add 3" for sure. I don’t see why the billion dollar empire that the NFL is can’t come up with a better test. They should be jumping up to some kind of pad that your head touches. Check the guys height then how high he can get his head up. That would be a true vertical.
[/quote]

The reason they do it that way is that it’s much more reliable to measure a two hand reach versus a one hand reach. The guy in the first picture is actually who taught me how to administer the test to athletes.

Trust me, there’s plenty of room for the athlete to try to shorten their reach even using the two hand method so you have to really watch what they’re doing to make sure they’re not shortarming you. There’s usually someone else around to make sure the person is standing up straight, etc. If they only used one hand, it would be worse.

What you can do though is decide on a correction factor beforehand and simply set the vein height accordingly. I’m not saying they do that in the NFL, but it would be easy to set a 3 inch correction factor into any VERTEC test.

[quote]Shadowzz4 wrote:

My feeling is that those last three players and others like them dont even work on jumping higher through training. So, I guess what I’m saying is some people can naturally achieve levels that are considered elite in their sport through very little to no specific training to improve an attribute such as jumping.

[/quote]

i’d go farther and say that those three guys haven’t a clue in the world how to train for explosive jumping, speed, nor do they know anything about nutrition or supplementation.

Do any of you guys that say these NBA players don’t train actually work with any NBA players? Or know any personally? I’m sure their nutrition/training isn’t OPTIMAL, but you better be damn sure that with millions of dollars at stake that most of them are busting their asses!

Besides, there are thousands of guys who are jumping over 35", but only a handful who can knock down a 3-pointer over a 6’8" defender or break an NBA half-court trap. Vertical leap is about 2% of basketball.

And about the offensive lineman… maybe not lineman, but definitly linebackers. I bet the average NBA player has a vert in the 32-34" range, while the average NFL linebacker is in the 36" range. I am pretty much pulling that stat out of my ass, but it makes sense when you think of their body makeup and the demands of the sport. Running vert would be a far different story.

[quote]jtrinsey wrote:
Do any of you guys that say these NBA players don’t train actually work with any NBA players? Or know any personally? I’m sure their nutrition/training isn’t OPTIMAL, but you better be damn sure that with millions of dollars at stake that most of them are busting their asses!

Besides, there are thousands of guys who are jumping over 35", but only a handful who can knock down a 3-pointer over a 6’8" defender or break an NBA half-court trap. Vertical leap is about 2% of basketball.

And about the offensive lineman… maybe not lineman, but definitly linebackers. I bet the average NBA player has a vert in the 32-34" range, while the average NFL linebacker is in the 36" range. I am pretty much pulling that stat out of my ass, but it makes sense when you think of their body makeup and the demands of the sport. Running vert would be a far different story.[/quote]

I don’t know about that. I have read on ESPN’s site that the average NBA player is about 6’7" 220-225 and I read on scout.com that the avg.for NFL players is 6’1" 245. I highly doubt the avg.NBA player is not going to out jump a football player 20lbs heavier.