T Nation

NFL Combine Verticals

[quote]Shadowzz4 wrote:
Black and white doesnt matter? Watch any Olympic speed events lately… it’s not just black that matters, its white too but each excel at different things. Ever notice that 90% of the elite marathon runners come from eastern africa (Kenya, Ethiopia, Somalia, etc…)? And why the best basketball players, football players, sprinters and boxers (any explosive sport) can trace their lineage back to western africa (Nigeria, Cameroon, Angola, etc…)? At elite levels it is genetic. White athletes are pretty versatile and can do a variety of things well, but usually do not excel at the extremes of power or endurance sports. You may get a white athlete here or there that can hang with western african sprinters or eastern african marathoners, but that would be few and far between.

I would bet if the amount of african americans and caucasians in this country were reversed there would be maybe 5 or 6 white football players, none at the speed positions, quarterbacks and kickers might be diff… Not all humans are created optimally for the same sport. Not a stereotype or anything just how it is… I have also heard that at elite levels of strength sports white athletes can have an advantage…[/quote]

thats how it is in them sports but look at cycling all whites
oly lifting all white and asian and oly lifting is the most explosive sport
look at shot put etc whites

these dominances are more to do with social factors in my opinion.

[quote]matsm21 wrote:

White guys that can jump over 40 inch? Nooooo way

why don’t you poll some of the volleyball players on this site. there are a few that can really jump.

I’m a basketball player. my vert is 35". I know of a few white guys with 40" verticals, and about as many black guys w/ 40" verts. its very rare, and not race exclusive
[/quote]

I was being sarcastic LOL

For the record, I got a 32 inch vert. Im italian. And thats after a little more than a year of training, and actually only a few months of that was done with vert jumping in mind.

I will again say, Are you F’n serious? How could he be ONE OF THE FIRST (I love the caps) if Mike Boyle was the first to be in the limelight for it 11 years ago? This means Boyle wasn’t even necessarily one of the first to do it. He was the first to be in the limelight.

So in 11 years, you think no one took his cue and did/are doing what Joe Defranco is currently doing, and he can be considered ‘One of the first’? I hope you’re not serious. Just cause you personally have not heard of other coaches doing this work, cause you’re too busy training youths or just reading t-mag doesn’t mean in 11 YEARS this has not been done.

Actually its done at every d-1 football school in the country, every year. Boyle got national media attention, just like Jay Schroeder a few years ago. Got to Mark Verstegen’s athletes performance site and read the national media articles of him preparing football players for the draft.

Defranco got a little bit of attention here, and you noticed. Boyle, Verstegen, and Schroeder all got athletes into the first round, I’m not sure Defranco did that. But go on and continue to call him one of the first coaches to prepare football players for the combine.

FYI, I’m not bashing Defranco, I like his stuff. But by no means is he doing anything remotely new or inventive.

[quote]terps 23 wrote:
matticus, while he is certainly impressive i think most would agree vernon davis equaled or surpassed the n.c. state grad at the combine.

vernon davis
6’3" 253
4.38 40
42 inch vertical
33 reps at 225
bodyfat? see for yourself http://www.baltimoresun.com/media/thumbnails/photo/2005-09/19617775.jpg[/quote]

vernon davis is a savage! i cant wait to see him dominate the tight end position.

http://svt.se/content/1/c6/41/76/31/040816-holmspanst-kort.asx

white guy jumping pretty high

white guys do alright in the high and long jump events…

you laugh, but alot of people think that! maybe I here it more being a basketball player. I always just saw it as white guys making excuses for not training to jump high,LOL.

I think it’s 385. Might be 400. Not bad for a guy 6’7"

Cool Story. During summer conditioning last year coach challanged Mario that if he could power clean 365 5 times in under a minute the team wouldn’t have to run. He got it 8 times.

[quote]superscience wrote:
Shadowzz4 wrote:
Black and white doesnt matter? Watch any Olympic speed events lately… it’s not just black that matters, its white too but each excel at different things. Ever notice that 90% of the elite marathon runners come from eastern africa (Kenya, Ethiopia, Somalia, etc…)? And why the best basketball players, football players, sprinters and boxers (any explosive sport) can trace their lineage back to western africa (Nigeria, Cameroon, Angola, etc…)? At elite levels it is genetic. White athletes are pretty versatile and can do a variety of things well, but usually do not excel at the extremes of power or endurance sports. You may get a white athlete here or there that can hang with western african sprinters or eastern african marathoners, but that would be few and far between.

I would bet if the amount of african americans and caucasians in this country were reversed there would be maybe 5 or 6 white football players, none at the speed positions, quarterbacks and kickers might be diff… Not all humans are created optimally for the same sport. Not a stereotype or anything just how it is… I have also heard that at elite levels of strength sports white athletes can have an advantage…

thats how it is in them sports but look at cycling all whites
oly lifting all white and asian and oly lifting is the most explosive sport
look at shot put etc whites

these dominances are more to do with social factors in my opinion.
[/quote]

I agree that social factors probably have alot to do with why people from some areas are better at some sports. Are Canadians genetically better at hockey than Mexicans, or is there just alot of fucking ice up there so everyone plays hockey and that creates a large talent pool for that sport in that country?

Shadow, you are making a serious category error. Even if people from Kenya, for example, are genetically predisposed to be good at running, what does that have to do with the color of their skin?

I believe that people whose ancestors have lived in a certain region (especially an isolated one)will develop unique pyhsical attributes. Now I am just making this up, but lets assume that people from kenya have developed a few unique physical attributes. Say they all are tall, have long (achilles?) tendons, an efficient leg length/height ratio, resistance to malaria…and dark skin.

Why would you come to the conclusion that they are good runners because of their skin color? Even if you are not claiming their is a cause/effect relationship and just statistical probability, skin color is just as arbitrary as any other attribute.

It is immediately visibe, and I think that is why so many people like to try to make that connection. And that is stupid. Skin color has no direct relationship to running ability.

It makes more sense to talke about people with a genetic ancestry from certain regions (which I see you have done, also) as skin color is just arbitrary and irrelevent way to categorize people in terms of athletic ability.

be aware that NFL verts aren’t legit…

In the NFL, they measure reach with 2 hands and then jump with one hand!
2 hand reach is usually 3 inches lower than a one arm reach, and more so for the taller players. Plus your body stretches as well when you jump one handed

so deduct at least 3 inches from all NFL VJ to get a more realistic VJ number…
So anyone with a 30-33 inch NFL VJ is pretty average…
Only people with 40+ NFL VJ are what you would call freaky. So that 46inch NFL VJ record is really only 43 tops, and maybe more like 40-42

NFL VJ testing method
reach measured with 2 hands

then they jump with one hand…

[quote]matticus wrote:

Hey Matticus, checking out the pics from the link you posted. How much is Mario Williams power cleaning on that Champions Day.

I think it’s 385. Might be 400. Not bad for a guy 6’7"

Cool Story. During summer conditioning last year coach challanged Mario that if he could power clean 365 5 times in under a minute the team wouldn’t have to run. He got it 8 times.

[/quote]

looks no more than 352lbs at the most
There is one red plate - 25kg, one blue 20kg, and one unmarked plate - lets say its another 25kg plate. And then add the bar 20kg. 160kg tops - 352lbs, but it could be less, depending on what that unmarked plate is.

What you are saying about the NFL verticals being inflated makes perfect sense.

Mario’s vertical in the summer tested out at about 37. I was surprised at the 40.5 at the combine. Now I know why.

The power clean pic may indeed be only 325.

As an 18 year old before his freshman season he power cleaned 320.

And with that photo you posted of him jumping - is proof enough

He is 6’7" so if he really did jump 40+ inches his head should be just about right at the rim.
And it’s not, it’s about 4+ inches under

displacement of the head never lies :slight_smile:

The picture is of Manny Lawson. He’s 6’5". No matter your point still stands. It’ll be interesting to see where Lawson gets selected.

[quote]Shadowzz4 wrote:
Black and white doesnt matter? Watch any Olympic speed events lately… it’s not just black that matters, its white too but each excel at different things. Ever notice that 90% of the elite marathon runners come from eastern africa (Kenya, Ethiopia, Somalia, etc…)? And why the best basketball players, football players, sprinters and boxers (any explosive sport) can trace their lineage back to western africa (Nigeria, Cameroon, Angola, etc…)? At elite levels it is genetic. White athletes are pretty versatile and can do a variety of things well, but usually do not excel at the extremes of power or endurance sports. You may get a white athlete here or there that can hang with western african sprinters or eastern african marathoners, but that would be few and far between.

I would bet if the amount of african americans and caucasians in this country were reversed there would be maybe 5 or 6 white football players, none at the speed positions, quarterbacks and kickers might be diff… Not all humans are created optimally for the same sport. Not a stereotype or anything just how it is… I have also heard that at elite levels of strength sports white athletes can have an advantage…[/quote]

seen high jump, long jump, hammer throw, shot put, javelin, weightlifting, 1500m swimming at the olympics recently?

well have you?

do they involve power or endurance in swimmings case?

its more complicated than you make out

No matter what his VJ is he(Lawson) is a beast. He would look great opposite of Ware in Dallas!

BTW Matticus,are you on the NC State team currently and what position did/do you play?

[quote]earthshaker wrote:
No matter what his VJ is he(Lawson) is a beast. He would look great opposite of Ware in Dallas!

BTW Matticus,are you on the NC State team currently and what position did/do you play?[/quote]

Heck no. If I was only about 7 inches taller and over 100 pounds heavier I think I could have made a good OL. Just a big state fan. I had some friends while I was at State that played on the team.

  • not true, for example all the bobsledders would outrun the black dudes in the first 40 yards easily

[quote]Shadowzz4 wrote:
Black and white doesnt matter? Watch any Olympic speed events lately… it’s not just black that matters, its white too but each excel at different things. Ever notice that 90% of the elite marathon runners come from eastern africa (Kenya, Ethiopia, Somalia, etc…)? And why the best basketball players, football players, sprinters and boxers (any explosive sport) can trace their lineage back to western africa (Nigeria, Cameroon, Angola, etc…)? At elite levels it is genetic. White athletes are pretty versatile and can do a variety of things well, but usually do not excel at the extremes of power or endurance sports. You may get a white athlete here or there that can hang with western african sprinters or eastern african marathoners, but that would be few and far between.

I would bet if the amount of african americans and caucasians in this country were reversed there would be maybe 5 or 6 white football players, none at the speed positions, quarterbacks and kickers might be diff… Not all humans are created optimally for the same sport. Not a stereotype or anything just how it is… I have also heard that at elite levels of strength sports white athletes can have an advantage…[/quote]

I completely agree with you. There has been evidence for years that west african’s and there decendents are more explosive than whites but there is individuality to be considerted along with training. I read an article that said that the Soviet super heavy Oly lifters were jumping 110cm! That’s what a 43 inch vertical?
Brandon Green

Whats the point of the NCSU night of champions thing exactly?

Way back when it was Meet the Pack day. Players had a practice and then afterwards met the fans signed autographs and interacted. Keep the folks pumped up who help fun the football program.

They do the Night of Champions thing to avoid it counting as a practice under the limited number of summer practices you’re allowed to have. It’s really a very boring event compared to watching the team scrimmage and run board drills.

Amato keeps a very closed program during the summer. Coaches like Beamer (VT) and Bowden (FSU) have much more accessable programs in the fall. I think State only has one practice that’s even open to the media during the summer.