Next Superman Going Dark Knight Route.

There was a rivalry that evolved into a friendship but Superman is still the boy scout with some issues while Batman is the “whatever it takes” guy who tries to pretend he isn’t as ruthless as he is. In recent history this would be the Babel tower arc in JLA, the whole Brother Eye thing, The recent story in Batman/Superman where he helped get rid of all the kryptonite just to have a huge stockpile of kryptonite left that he owns.

I think realistic is fine, but I think what was stated in the article on trying to be:

“We’re going to try to go dark to the extent that the character allows it.”

Showing the human side of Superman would be great, trying to turn him dark would not be great.

I believe if they focus on Supermans feeling of being a Titan amongst mere mortals, then they can really get into a in depth character study on who superman really is. People tend to gravitate towards Batman because he is flawed and we can identify with his feelings of helplessness and the want to right the wrongs that has been done to him and society. Alot of us lift weights to be healthy and look good, but also to have the feeling that we can defend the ones we love if and when the time comes. Batman dons the Cape and cowl to defend all of Gotham.

Superman is just too damned impervious. Yeah he has the whole kryptonite thing but how many common crooks carry around kryptonite? Give us Superman’s inner struggle, like the last episode of Justice League Unlimited when he fought Dardsied:

“I feel like I live in a world made of cardboard. Always taking constant care not to break something. To break someone. Never allowing myself to lose control, even for a moment, or someone could die. But you can take it, can’t ya, big man? What we have here is a rare opportunity for me to cut loose, and show you just how powerful I really am.”

I got goosebumps during that scene not because Superman proceeded to whip Darkseids ass but because he was finally going to be as human as he could be, and throw it all down for the sake of the planet.

Give us THAT Superman and you will have the first Superman movie done right.

[quote]Pootie Tang wrote:
I believe if they focus on Supermans feeling of being a Titan amongst mere mortals, then they can really get into a in depth character study on who superman really is. People tend to gravitate towards Batman because he is flawed and we can identify with his feelings of helplessness and the want to right the wrongs that has been done to him and society. Alot of us lift weights to be healthy and look good, but also to have the feeling that we can defend the ones we love if and when the time comes. Batman dons the Cape and cowl to defend all of Gotham.

Superman is just too damned impervious. Yeah he has the whole kryptonite thing but how many common crooks carry around kryptonite? Give us Superman’s inner struggle, like the last episode of Justice League Unlimited when he fought Dardsied:

“I feel like I live in a world made of cardboard. Always taking constant care not to break something. To break someone. Never allowing myself to lose control, even for a moment, or someone could die. But you can take it, can’t ya, big man? What we have here is a rare opportunity for me to cut loose, and show you just how powerful I really am.”

I got goosebumps during that scene not because Superman proceeded to whip Darkseids ass but because he was finally going to be as human as he could be, and throw it all down for the sake of the planet.

Give us THAT Superman and you will have the first Superman movie done right.

[/quote]

Truth.

The Superman/Captain Marvel fight from a few seasons earlier was the first time I ever said, out loud, “Oh Shit!” to a fight scene in any movie, tv show, or other.

But that “Ima fuck you up, cuz I can” thing was beyond awesome.

Should have been a four-parter, though. Had Darkseid run through the tanks (maybe another Doomsday clone, Hawk Man, Marvel, had Karate Kid kick him in the face).

[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
In an old Justice League, where Mr. Miracle supposedly dies (they have the whole funeral, really well done actually), there’s a scene afterwards where Bats is sitting, brooding on the edge of some building, and Sups flies by to discuss some things. You can totally tell that Bats hates him.

Here’s a guy with all these amazing powers, and he’s still essentially a goody-goody sap whose overly high ideals have failed where Bats’ own ends-justify-the-means mentality would have been better suited. When bats isn’t especially friendly, Sups starts to say that he’s always thought of them as friends, but Bats cuts him off. He obviously views it differents, a marriage of convenience so to speak.

IN his eyes, with the criminal element out there, sure it’s good to have someone as powerful as Superman around, but if Batman had SUp’s powers, he probably would have wiped out the entire criminal element on his own by now -lol.

S
[/quote]

There is an old else worlds story in which superman was raised by the Waynes instead of the kens and he becomes batman as a result. It was a good story, I don’t know if it’s still in print but it gives you an idea of what would happen if bats had supermans powers.

[quote]Qaash wrote:
The Mighty Stu wrote:
In an old Justice League, where Mr. Miracle supposedly dies (they have the whole funeral, really well done actually), there’s a scene afterwards where Bats is sitting, brooding on the edge of some building, and Sups flies by to discuss some things. You can totally tell that Bats hates him.

Here’s a guy with all these amazing powers, and he’s still essentially a goody-goody sap whose overly high ideals have failed where Bats’ own ends-justify-the-means mentality would have been better suited. When bats isn’t especially friendly, Sups starts to say that he’s always thought of them as friends, but Bats cuts him off. He obviously views it differents, a marriage of convenience so to speak.

IN his eyes, with the criminal element out there, sure it’s good to have someone as powerful as Superman around, but if Batman had SUp’s powers, he probably would have wiped out the entire criminal element on his own by now -lol.

S

There is an old else worlds story in which superman was raised by the Waynes instead of the kens and he becomes batman as a result. It was a good story, I don’t know if it’s still in print but it gives you an idea of what would happen if bats had supermans powers.[/quote]

That sounds awesome. Is it called elseworlds or something else. I’d like to check that out. Not to hijack this thread, but thanks to the comic book heads of this forum I’m getting back into reading comics/graphic novels. I just picked up Batman:year one and am going to follow it with The Dark Knight returns.

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
Qaash wrote:
The Mighty Stu wrote:
In an old Justice League, where Mr. Miracle supposedly dies (they have the whole funeral, really well done actually), there’s a scene afterwards where Bats is sitting, brooding on the edge of some building, and Sups flies by to discuss some things. You can totally tell that Bats hates him.

Here’s a guy with all these amazing powers, and he’s still essentially a goody-goody sap whose overly high ideals have failed where Bats’ own ends-justify-the-means mentality would have been better suited. When bats isn’t especially friendly, Sups starts to say that he’s always thought of them as friends, but Bats cuts him off. He obviously views it differents, a marriage of convenience so to speak.

IN his eyes, with the criminal element out there, sure it’s good to have someone as powerful as Superman around, but if Batman had SUp’s powers, he probably would have wiped out the entire criminal element on his own by now -lol.

S

There is an old else worlds story in which superman was raised by the Waynes instead of the kens and he becomes batman as a result. It was a good story, I don’t know if it’s still in print but it gives you an idea of what would happen if bats had supermans powers.

That sounds awesome. Is it called elseworlds or something else. I’d like to check that out. Not to hijack this thread, but thanks to the comic book heads of this forum I’m getting back into reading comics/graphic novels. I just picked up Batman:year one and am going to follow it with The Dark Knight returns.
[/quote]

The title of the book is called speeding bullets.

[quote]Qaash wrote:
WhiteFlash wrote:
Qaash wrote:
The Mighty Stu wrote:
In an old Justice League, where Mr. Miracle supposedly dies (they have the whole funeral, really well done actually), there’s a scene afterwards where Bats is sitting, brooding on the edge of some building, and Sups flies by to discuss some things. You can totally tell that Bats hates him.

Here’s a guy with all these amazing powers, and he’s still essentially a goody-goody sap whose overly high ideals have failed where Bats’ own ends-justify-the-means mentality would have been better suited. When bats isn’t especially friendly, Sups starts to say that he’s always thought of them as friends, but Bats cuts him off. He obviously views it differents, a marriage of convenience so to speak.

IN his eyes, with the criminal element out there, sure it’s good to have someone as powerful as Superman around, but if Batman had SUp’s powers, he probably would have wiped out the entire criminal element on his own by now -lol.

S

There is an old else worlds story in which superman was raised by the Waynes instead of the kens and he becomes batman as a result. It was a good story, I don’t know if it’s still in print but it gives you an idea of what would happen if bats had supermans powers.

That sounds awesome. Is it called elseworlds or something else. I’d like to check that out. Not to hijack this thread, but thanks to the comic book heads of this forum I’m getting back into reading comics/graphic novels. I just picked up Batman:year one and am going to follow it with The Dark Knight returns.

The title of the book is called speeding bullets.

Superman: Speeding Bullets - Wikipedia [/quote]

Thanks man. I’m gonna try and hunt that down.

[quote]Pootie Tang wrote:

“I feel like I live in a world made of cardboard. Always taking constant care not to break something. To break someone. Never allowing myself to lose control, even for a moment, or someone could die. But you can take it, can’t ya, big man? What we have here is a rare opportunity for me to cut loose, and show you just how powerful I really am.”

[/quote]

That scene is AWESOME.

Darkseid v. Superman, make it happen, end of story.

Also Lobo. Lobo is fucking epic.

Christian Bale’s take on this: http://asp.elitefts.com/qa/training-logs.asp?qid=79428&tid=63

[quote]JohnnyNinja wrote:
Yup Bats and Sups POV can not exist together and both of them know it. (edited to say- The Arkham Asylum: A Serious House on Serious Earth is my favorite graphic novel / comic and that Bats, the Dark Knight Frank Miller bats would have nothing to do with Superman, outside of using him for his own objective. Not a chance in hell Bats would trust someone so obviously unable to see the world as Bats needs it to be seen.)

Aside from that, Watchmen provide us with the best version of Superman in my opinion that exists. In my view, Superman would have no part of humanity or earth as it exists, he simply would not comprehend it, much the way that we can not comprehend life as an ant.

If I took a step back, I’d agree with Professor X above and state that Clark Kent is the reason why Superman is anything worth paying attention to. God is not interesting without a human point of view and if they were to make a “dark” Superman it would be a Clark Kent story, not a Superman saving the world from some guy w/o kryptonite.

[/quote]

Have you read Supreme Power the hyperion series (part of Squadron Supreme)? Its by marvel but all the characters are analogous to the DC universe. It plays out a very different development path that could have been Superman. Pick it up in the trades if you haven’t read it. It very well done.

There is alos a similar interplay between Superman and Bats in the “Man for Tomorrow” arc. Superman states how he respects Batman for what he does, but doesn’t like Batman very much and that this current path will lead batman to becoming the miserable old man we find in the likes of Batman Beyond or the Dark Night Returns. Then Superman flies off to commit suicide. Or mass murder depending on how you view it. Sorta.

[quote]Pootie Tang wrote:
I believe if they focus on Supermans feeling of being a Titan amongst mere mortals, then they can really get into a in depth character study on who superman really is. People tend to gravitate towards Batman because he is flawed and we can identify with his feelings of helplessness and the want to right the wrongs that has been done to him and society. Alot of us lift weights to be healthy and look good, but also to have the feeling that we can defend the ones we love if and when the time comes. Batman dons the Cape and cowl to defend all of Gotham.

Superman is just too damned impervious. Yeah he has the whole kryptonite thing but how many common crooks carry around kryptonite? Give us Superman’s inner struggle, like the last episode of Justice League Unlimited when he fought Dardsied:

“I feel like I live in a world made of cardboard. Always taking constant care not to break something. To break someone. Never allowing myself to lose control, even for a moment, or someone could die. But you can take it, can’t ya, big man? What we have here is a rare opportunity for me to cut loose, and show you just how powerful I really am.”

I got goosebumps during that scene not because Superman proceeded to whip Darkseids ass but because he was finally going to be as human as he could be, and throw it all down for the sake of the planet.

Give us THAT Superman and you will have the first Superman movie done right.

[/quote]

See that is the core of my problem with making Superman “darker”.

He cannot be.

If he is not the all-American boy scout anymore what or who is there from stopping him to do whatever the fuck he wants?

Instead of going the darker route, they should entertain the idea of introducing some of the more “darker” heroes.

Which there is a whole plethora of them to be pulled from. It’s just a question if a movie like The Watchman will have the mass appeal and bring in more than the graphic novel fans.

That being said anyone else waiting for the Deadpool movie? I’m not exactly sure how I feel about Ryan Reynolds playing him though.

[quote]LUEshi wrote:
Darkseid v. Superman, make it happen, end of story.

Also Lobo. Lobo is fucking epic.[/quote]

Lobo would be awesome, but it’d have to be in a few years. They’d have to put some more characters movies out and see how they did. To do Lobo right it would have to be really graphic and would cost a shit ton of money.

The studio would stand to lose a fortune if they didn’t see how receptive people were to other characters.


Darker Superman.

[quote]WolBarret wrote:
Darker Superman.[/quote]

LMAO


Whiskey
Tango
Foxtrot

[quote]WolBarret wrote:
Darker Superman.[/quote]

Now that would make for an interesting Superman movie.

As a character Superman is just fine. They could’ve shown how imperfect Superman is without resorting to knocking Lois up or having him literally stalk her.

Dark and we can get Matlock involved.

Win-win.