T Nation

Next Cycle


Ok, I'm posting my upcoming cycle for you guys to tear apart. This will be my final cycle with long esters and a duration greater than 3-4 weeks. I plan to start the first week of may.

current stats:
6'2", 235-240 lbs, 11-12% bf

20 week cycle:
weeks 1-4: 30 mg D-bol ED
week 1&2: 900 mg Test Cyp, 900 mg Deca
weeks 3-10: 600 mg Test Cyp, 450 mg Deca
weeks 11-14: 100 mg Test prop EOD, 100 mg Npp EOD
weeks 15-20: 100 mg Test prop EOD, 100 mg Masteron EOD

arimidex @ 0.5 mg ED throughout to week 14. weeks 15-20 will be 0.5 mg EOD.

considering a conservative HCG protocol on weekends during the cycle (250 IU sat and sun)....but not sure about it. thoughts? if no HCG, then i'll run trib throughout.

- 3 weeks clomid @ 100/100/50 starting week 21
- 3 weeks nolva @ 40/20/20 starting week 24

the plan is to do this last long cycle and then continue on with short maintenance cycles of 3-4 weeks in duration with fast acting gear...taking lengthy breaks between.

thanks for any input.



Looks good to me...another bro on another board posted a study on HCG use which basically said ~300 ius E3D was about the same LH a normal male would produce. I used this in my last cycle and it worked out OK.

Also, I am trying 7 days of Clomid at 100 MGS a day mid cycle to prompt the Hypothalmus, not sure if it does much but I read some use Clomid mid cycle and had much better recovery.


Boy after all the effort to disuade you boys from using your pct drugs, you are still hung up on then, eating B.S that these research sites spoon down your throats.
Hello! the same guys you are getting this info from are the one's selling you these products! But you listen to their 'loose' science and your sold on it eh?

Well first off whoever said that 300 iu's e3d is the same as what your pituatary would secrete is missleadig it's like the blind leading the blind! The half life of hcg is less than a few hours, so all that LH is hitting your leydig receptors in a very short period of time - not 3 days! Can you think leydig receptor burnout!
The only way that may work, would be to attach an ester to the hcg, if that is even possible, or have a subcutaneous line -much like an IV - with an infusion pump hooked up to continue to infuse the dose at a very small continuous metered dose throughout the night.
Obviously impractacle.

As for the clomid theory. The bottom line is if you have supraphysiological levels of AAS in your body, your body will sense this via the AR and no amount of clomid is going to change that fact.

So stop fooling yourself, there is no way to minimize hpta suppression while on AAS. It's like you guys are trying to put your hand in the fire without getting burned!

But if you would rather get your 'loose' science from someone who is trying to sell you some hcg, fine with me, but I will do my best to railroad all you ignorant sob's who are polluting the minds of individuals who are currently researching AAS and planning their cycle's out. Because if I don't say something, they'll just end up copying the same mistakes that this entire generation of juicers have being making.


i knew pris would chime in about HCG...to be expected, and what i wanted to see. I just wanted some insight about a low dose protocol and IF it may be used effectively without leydig burnout. notice how i used the word "considering"...definitely not "going to use". I've run trib during cycles before and found it helped a little to combat atrophy of the boys....can always stick with that approach.

as far as the clomid therapy during cycle...it doesn't do a thing as far as aiding recovery post cycle. a total load of bullshit, as pris already pointed out.

anyway.......bump for comments please.


Hey, I don't want to get back into a HCG debate, here is the study I refrenced.


Coviello AD, Matsumoto AM, Bremner WJ, Herbst KL, Amory JK, Anawalt BD, Sutton PR, Wright WW, Brown TR, Yan X, Zirkin BR, Jarow JP.

Center for Research in Reproduction and Contraception, Geriatric Research Education and Clinical Center, Veteran Affairs Puget Sound Health Care System (AMM), and Department of Medicine, University of Washington School of Medicine (ADC, WJB, JKA, BDA, PLS), Seattle, WA; Department of Medicine, Charles R. Drew University (KLH), Los Angeles, CA; Department of Urology, Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine (XY, JPJ), Baltimore, MD; Division of Reproductive Biology, Department of Biochemistry and Molecular Biology Johns Hopkins University School of Public Health (WWW, TRB, XY, BRZ, JPJ), Baltimore, MD.

In previous studies of testicular biopsy tissue from healthy men, intratesticular testosterone (ITT) has been shown to be much higher than serum testosterone (T), suggesting that high ITT is needed relative to serum T for normal spermatogenesis in men. However, the quantitative relationship between ITT and spermatogenesis is not known. To begin to address this issue experimentally we sought to determine the dose response relationship between human chorionic gonadotropin (hCG) and ITT to determine the minimum dose needed to maintain ITT in the normal range. Twenty-nine men with normal reproductive physiology were randomized to receive 200 mg T enanthate (TE) weekly in combination with either saline placebo or hCG 125 IU, 250 IU, or 500 IU every other day for 3 weeks.

ITT was assessed in testicular fluid obtained by percutaneous fine needle aspiration at baseline and the end of treatment. Baseline serum T (14.1 nmol/L) was 1.2% of ITT (1174 nmol/L). LH and FSH were profoundly suppressed to 5% and 3% of baseline respectively, and ITT was suppressed by 94% (1234 nmol/L to 72 nmol/L) in the TE/placebo group. ITT increased linearly with increasing hCG dose (P < 0.001). Post-treatment ITT was 25% less than baseline in the 125 IU hCG group, 7% less than baseline in the 250 IU hCG group, and 26% greater than baseline in the 500 IU hCG group. These results demonstrate that relatively low dose hCG maintains ITT within the normal range in healthy men with gonadotropin suppression.



I re-read your post and can sense your passion for your "method" and it works for you. I am not an expert, but I am not an ignorant SOB either, someday I may give your method a shot, but my antecododal expierence is that HCG "worked for me" during cycle and into PCT compared to not using it. And your method flies in the face of everything I have read on PCT, but that doesn't mean its wrong. Thanks for stating your opinion.


Well thats nice, but It is not you I am trying to convince, as already stated, it is the the boys out there thinking of cycling for their first time e.t.c. I don't want to see them led down the wrong path.

And tapering isn't 'my' method. I got the method from Cy Wilson, but since have learned that a lot of bodybuilders used to use this method with great success in the 80's.

As for your research study, it only shows how small a dose of hcg is needed to keep ITT at normal levels, It doesn't deal with receptor burnout, or post use recovery, as that is not important, since this therapy is mainly studied for those with pituitary insufficiency. I highly doubt this therapy would be for eugonadic males.

In fact, the whole 'testicular artrophy' as being the reason for deep suppresion while on a steroid cycle is a bunch of B.S. also, and that is the reason used most for doing hcg post cycle and during cycle wihile using steroids.


bump for constructive critiques......anyone?


This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.


This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.


Looks good Juice. I am a front load guy too.



Damn, 240 at 12% is tight, on this cycle how much are you expecting in gains? Long cycle, 255 at 9%? I am asking because I have never run one that long and never ran something similar to cutting at the end. Is your diet the same for the entire 20 weeks?



well, i have no hard numbers (ie. weight gain or bf%) in mind. the overall goal is to add as much quality mass as possible! thats specific enough for me. targeting my lower body and chest is a secondary goal. my back, arms and delts dominate my physique.....so catching up in the previously mentioned areas is my main concern. i want to add mass everywhere of course....but targeting those areas is the goal above all else, since i tend to be able to improve my strong areas even with minimal training.

my training will be more hypertrophy focused. in the past i have tended to get caught up in gym numbers....more of a powerbuilding approach.

diet will be balls to the wall bulking, kept relatively clean, but with cheat days when i feel necessary. i don't bother counting calories anymore....i used to...and now can keep track in my head on a daily basis with relative accuracy. in all honesty, i find it difficult to keep pounding down 6000 calories daily for an overly extended period....but i plan on keeping it up for the entire run....as this will be my most aggressive cycle ever....i want it to be the most successful one ever.

thats all i got bro.


Good job juice.Listen to p22 about the pct pros and cons.Hell......roll that shit up and pin it.

Swole damn it,