T Nation

Next Cycle? Last Didn't Go So Well

I’m currently blasting and cruising, my last blast was 600 test, 20mg dbol kickstart, I gained nothing from it, training was good, gear worked (sex drive was up is an indicator) and dbol defo gave me strength at the start until the dbol wore off, after the dbol I did stop using my AI so it was probs all converting, I’ve come off now and was going to wait but plan my next cycle…

RAD 30mg/day (Why Sarms? Dbol gave me lots of gas and put me off food, sarms haven’t in the past… it’s at a high dose because as I say I blast and cruise so the diminishing point people speak of doesn’t really apply with SARMs and TRT

Test 750mg/wk x12 (I did 600 in the past 3x think it is time to go up?)

Deca 300mg/wk x12

Aromasin 10mg/eod

I find it very hard to believe that you gained nothing with g2g gear. What is your food intake like?

If this were true then you’d have gained something even with bunk gear.

Do you have anything that supports this claim? Because it’s in no way true unless you’re privy to some research that’s new.

Yes, SARMs can be dosed higher, I tried it already before going that route along with TRT the reason for the diminishing point is due to the fact you are further supressing yourself, if you are on TRT it doesn’t matter as you are getting exogenous Test anyway, It’s a risk to reward ratio but it highly decreases vs on TRT or Natural.

I’ll be honest I look better, but I weigh less and my food intake was huge 5000+ cals, I honestly think it was due to me not taking an AI then (I always took one with Dbol though), realising…

While I may not be getting Gyno the test could still be getting converted into Estrogen and SHBG

The reason I don’t think it was bunk is I had a high sex drive, higher than normal but it has always been high.

I have used the same lab always from the same source they were spot on, on my last 2 cycles.

My conclusion is it is due to me not taking an AI, I have noticed I’m less calm more emotional atm that may just be placebo atm.

That’s not how any of that works bro.

The plural of “anecdote” is not “data”. I’m asking for real, actual science. You don’t have it because no one has it. These drugs are experimental. We have no idea how they work in the human body outside of very controlled patient sets.

In a world where you can get testosterone and a good oral like tbol (which seems to suit your goals) there is no reason to use unproven, unreliable compounds. None. Hell, you can get some decent designer drugs “legally” from EU supplement shops and they’ll be much more effective and have a better history of data than any SARM. It’s just unremittingly stupid to use them unless you’re trying to avoid pinning (which you obviously are not). SARMs are for the kids scared of the real deal, not men who have run legitimate cycles.

You just answered why you didn’t gain anything. You weigh less now meaning you didn’t eat in a caloric surplus therefore how can you expect to gain when you are in a caloric deficit? I don’t care if you are eating 20,000 calories if you are losing weight you are not on a surplus plain and simple.

And btw, sex drive is not an indicator of legit gear, a blood test is how you figure that out.

This was the biggest crock of horse shit I think I have ever heard on these forums. The amount of stupidness I just read is immeasurable. I actually feel like you may have decreased everyone IQ by 10 points by even posting that garbage. There should be a stupidity disclaimer attached.

***** Disclaimer — You may become stupider for reading any further.


It’s also about the quality of calories. Iv seen guys eat in caloric surplus of straight garbage and mass builder shakes and not gain shit.

You really don’t need to be in a ridiculous surplus to gain you should be able to gain In a 500-1000 calories surplus as long as your food is clean and your macros are on point.

I want to know more about his bro science on how not taking an AI affected his gains lol

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How many cycles have you done? You indicated 3X at 600 mg per week?

You might be at the point where you are not going to get crazy gains from the same cycle.

There are numerous things I want to say but as usual Iron has covered along with Zeek.

However there is one thing that I am surprised no one asked. The OP said he is on a blast and cruise plan and the last blast of I believe 600mgs a week of test didn’t return any results. There is two parts to what popped in my head. First, what does the OP weight? I highly doubt he is so developed that 600mgs does not return significant results but I will ask it despite all the indications that he is not drastically developed. The second part is what dose is the OP cruising on along with how long are his cruises? Think about it if he was blasting with test e then cruising for a period less than three months and did this back to back for three blasts his receptors are probably flat out on a strike. Heck with test e a cruise for three months is probably not enough because for almost the first month his levels are still well above cruise dose which means only two months of recoup time. That would probably be okay for like one cruise but three cruises and three blasts his entire body is saying “fuck this!”
Given some of the other things that he has said I am inclined to think he is just taking too high of a cruise dose along with not nearly enough time for each cruise. (I am being nice and pretending to presume he has his training on point) Then again his body might just be completely opposite from everyone else’s. After all if his body doesn’t gain a thing WITHOUT an AI in the mix he definitely has some weird genetics. All that estrogen and not even half of a pound of water retention, I wish I had to deal with that.

I cannot let this go. Yes, some free T converts to estrogen. It does not, ever, under any circumstances convert to SHBG. It will bind to SHBG, but at 600 mg you would have to have the SHBG of 6 guys for it to matter. What you would have, if anything, is lowered SHBG. The natural response to a readily available supply of T of an extended period of time.

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Well I did

Cycle 1 600mg test

Cruise 150mg test

Cycle 2 600mg test 400mg EQ

Cruise 150mg

Cycle 3 600mg Test (bumped to 750mg) + 6 week dbol kickstart 20mg.

My height 5ft 9… weight 190lb BF% = 15% I am more for strength than bodybuilding.

I did kinda wait 8 weeks off but only did 10 weeks with the EQ Cycle because I did not like EQ I got anxiety with it, I’m sure it was the EQ…

I think my gear was bunk based on what some of you guys have said because I should have gained something.

My lifts were a 140kg bench 250kg Deadlift 220kg Squat but my bench went down (AFTER DELOAD), I was doing what I normally do for x8 only got x6, the session before I got x7 which shows it was going down, guess I need to find some stuff pronto, I could get some bloods done now

Or since we all seem so sure about it being fake get some new stuff, wait 6 weeks, see how training responds at my cruise dose which it will if I have lost progress then get the test, It may just be terribly underdosed idk.

Ok fair enough thanks for the explanation I was just repeating what I heard on other forums, but may have took it too literally.