T Nation

Newb's Taper/Dosage Questions


#1

Hi fellas.

I have been a pretty avid lurker here for quite a while, and am making the plunge into the next level. Here are my stats:

6'
220lb
18% bf
28 years old

Yes, I know my BF% is still high.

I have been into bbing for around 10 years, but was set back 3 years ago by a fractured vertabrae and paralysis in my right arm. 4 surgeries later and a sedentary lifestyle, I had balloned up to a massive 265lbs of unsexy. For the last 4 months, I have been back at it hard, and have gotten down to 220.

My wife, apparently being a superficial bitch with no sense of loyalty to the man that has paid her bills for 8 years, started having numerous affairs, all of which I recently learned of, so needless to say I am single again.

I am a big guy, with a good bit of muscle, and my diet/training is in order, but I am trying to get to shirtless by summer. I need the confidence boost, and need to feel good about something again.

I have never cycled before, and so have decided on a Test E, or Cyp only first cycle. From my understanding, this can help me identify sides more precisely, and I can still lean out while on Test only. I have the Nolva/Clomid ready for sides (and the probably inevitable Gyno).

The advice I am seeking is in the taper/dosage. I was thinking 500mg per week for 10 weeks, to keep it relatively short. I have searched the forum and am still unable to find much information on "tapering" and would like a more experienced member to explain this to me, and whether or not it is relevant to my situation.

Also, the literature I have been able to dig up on Clen has led me to believe that it is only really beneficial to use for those that are already low in BF%. Is there truth to this, or could I benefit at my higher BF?

Thanks in advance for any information, I am more than happy to answer any questions.


#2

Yet another reason I have no interest in marriage…

You have been lurking here for a while, and you have “Nolva/Clomid ready for sides”, and haven’t been able to find any information on tapering?! There seems to be a new thread on tapering every day around here, not to mention the one that is STICKIED!

Forget about the taper for now, rethink your use of an SERM during cycle, and forget about the clen.


#3

Maybe I am just slow, but the stickied thread went a bit over my head. Searching for “front loading” doesn’t help much either.

Thank you for your advice. It seems that I was correct in my assertion of Clen.


#4

To spell it out, use arimidex during the cycle at 0.25mg ED to 0.5mg ED.

Dont taper, use 500mg over 8 weeks.

Wait for 2 weeks after the last test shot, then use 40mg tamoxifen for 2 weeks, followed by 20mg for 2 weeks.

Search ‘SERM PCT’ and ‘Arimidex’.

Simple, effective and relatively easy to recover from.


#5

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.


#6

Sure thing, my apologies.

I keep my calories at around 2,000 per day, with my maintanance at 2900.

Standard Fitday Macro:

Calories 1,955
Fat 67.3
Saturated 23.3
Polyunsaturated 9.9
Monounsaturated 26.9
Carbohydrate 107.5
Dietary Fiber 10.7
Protein 210
Alcohol 0.0

I do a refeed every 5 days.

My training routine is a push/pull 3 day split, with low intensity cardio x3 a week.

The weight is coming off quickly and nicely, I just want to hold as much muscle as I can while I drop this last 8%, and I want to drop it as quickly as possible.

I have never done a cycle, but have trained natty for years.

Any advice would be great. If you have any more questions please ask.


#7

I’m a relative amateur to this game as well Irish but I’m 99.9% certain that the vets will tell you to save the SERM’s (nolva and clomid, with many having a preference for nolva) for post cycle. It would be advisable to get your hands on an aromatase inhibitor (AI) such as anastrozole (adex) or letrozole (femara) to prevent the possibly of gyno whilst on cycle. At 500mg/w my many hours of reading suggests that most will be fine at this dosage but to definitely not begin until you have enough AI to last the entire cycle.

Adex is typically dosed between 0.25-0.5mg/day.

Nolvadex is used once the exogenous testosterone has left your system. Approximately three weeks after your last injection of test E or C. It is typically dosed at 40mg/day for the first fortnight of this period and then at 20mg/day for the next fortnight.

Yes Testosterone will help you hold muscle whilst depriving yourself of kcal’s. It will also give you an added boost to your libido at a time when you may need that-)


#8

Thank you for the information fellas.

A couple more questions:

Why an 8 week cycle or Cyp vs. a 10-12 week?

I am able to procure Anastrazol. My understanding of the literature leads me to believe that this is not taken the entire cycle, but only when sides begin to show?

The Nolva/Clomid. Is it best to stick with Nolva only, or to use both during PCT?

A Dbol kickstart. From numerous threads here, I gather that with a Cyp/E cycle only, that an oral kickstart can be useful for the first 2-6 weeks. With me being new to cycling, is this:
a)warranted
b)dosage range between 25-50mg per day
c)4 week enough to get in the “kickstart”?

Sorry for the nubby questions. Lots of conflicting information between boards.


#9

6-8 weeks is generally recommended instead of longer cycles as the benefits of the exogenous assistance usually tapers off from this point. Also, the longer the cycle, the greater the suppression of the HPTA and therefore greater difficulty recovering and maintaining your gains.

However, it may also depend on your timeline goal. Ie, if you absolutely want to peak 12 weeks from now and don’t mind being ‘off’ the gear for a further 12 weeks then a straight 12 week cycle is probably the best way to go.

If you are looking for continued progress over an extended period then keeping your cycles to 6-8 weeks in duration is generally recommended.

It is a personal call whether or not to run adex from the start of a test-only cycle. If you go for the dbol kickstart then, as was recommended to myself, to run adex from the first day.

Best to stick with one SERM.

In terms of dbol you may be more interested in ‘frontloading’ your test and assessing your progress from the one compound for this cycle rather than complicating the issue by adding another compound.

Frontloading is where you take a ‘greater than usual’ amount of test in your first injection and then continue with the 250mg E3D thereafter. This elevates test levels faster so you see and feel results faster.

The first injection would be 600mg test E or C if you are to use 500mg/wk.

If you choose to go with dbol then 30mg/day is generally recommended as a good dose for your first cycle.

Four weeks would be enough but extending it to six would be even better providing your liver values are ok.

Again if you choose to run the dbol I would suggest the optimal time to be using it is in the last three weeks of your cycle whilst your test levels are dropping since your last injection to basically finish the cyle strongly.


#10

Well, that was pretty much the most comprehensive answer I have ever received to any question I have ever asked. Thanks a lot! Your advice has been noted and will most likely be the plan I will go with.

I think I will skip the Dbol this time around. Since my receptors are virgin, I imagine I will get good results off of the Test alone, and I can build a stack next time around. I will just front load this round.

I was looking at 10 weeks for a couple of probably foolish reasons.

  1. I have just enough product to last 10 weeks at 500mg /week
  2. The cycle would end right around my birthday, which was the date of my body goal that I set for myself. Just extra motivation!
  3. I am not planning on doing another cycle until wintertime at the soonest.

The only question I think I still have is about the nolva/clomid. Starting 3 weeks after my last pin, would I take them together, or strictly stick with nolva?


#11

[quote] wrote:
[/quote]

BigIrish

I am running my first cycle with 500mg Test a week as well as Dbol and Decca.

My cycle is 10 weeks, (like you are thinking of doing)

Running the Dbol for the first 4 weeks to kick start the cycle, at 40mg per day.

There is nothing wrong in your thinking there. Personally, I feel that running only 500mg Test per week for only 8 weeks might be a bit on the low side for you, but that is not my call to make.

Guys like Brook, FuriousGeorge, Dynamohun etc (and there are many of them here) will give you fantastic advice, so

I read up, and asked questions here for a FULL YEAR before I started my first cycle, and I still know very little compared to the guys on here. I suggest you read a LOT more before starting your cycle.

And NO, Nolva is not enough, you MUST have an AI on hand for sides. Whether you run the AI from day 1 or just when you see some sides, is up to you. My advice is to run Adex form day one, but it’s YOUR choice.

I was advised to make the most of my first cycle and I suggest the same for you. It’s always that thin line between getting the most juice for your buck for the least amount of sides.