T Nation

Newbs First (I Did Research)

I’m sure this is going to come off as a horrible first post, but I feel that I need to have it answered. I’m currently 20 years old, and I have been training for 4 1/2 years consistently. My diet has been more than strict for the past 3 years. The gains have continuously come, but I feel that it is time to take things to another level. I have done tons of research on the topic and have decided to run my first cycle with Test-E and D-bol. My only problem is that I do have a very mild case of gyno from puberty. To prevent this from flaring any more, I will start to run 25mg of letro 2 weeks before I begin my cycle. This is how everything will look:

Week 1-12
25mg Letro

Week 1-4
200mg Test-E E3D
25mg D-Bol ED

Week 5-6
200mg Test-E E3D

Week 7-12
Test Taper
100E3D
80 E3D
60 E3D
40 E3D
20 E3d
10 E3D

For my PCT I will use Nolva. Since I am tapering I don’t see a real need for Clomid. The main reason for the Nolva is to help with an Estrogen rebound from the Letro. Do you believe this will be enough to prevent the gyno from getting any worse? And do you see any major flaws in my plan? Any and all advice is well appreciated.

To be 20 yrs old…

How tall are you?
Weight?
…and just for kicks -what’s the diameter of your wrist joint?

what test are you using? 200mg E3d is not a lot EOD might be better

Also to get your levels up I would run the DBOL at 50mg ED for 2 weeks instead of 25 over 4

test taper seems far to stretched out for me injected 10-100 mg of test really does not seem worth the hassle to me at all

Cycle looks OK. Newbies have posted a lot worse. I have 2 suggestions:

  1. bump up your dbol dosage. 25mg/day is too little, I think at least 30-40mg/day would be better.

  2. Do not run letro for the entire cycle, especially since this is a light cycle. If anything run .5mg adex ed. You should be fine with that, even with preexisting gyno. Running letro with this cycle is overkill and will kill your joints by the end. I ran letro one time and by the end of my cycle My hips, knees and shoulders were making training very painful.

Sorry for the repost but I just noticed that you are only running your cycle for six weeks and then tapering off…

And then I noticed that your taper is kind of screwed up. You need to reread Prisoners taper thread and then repost your proposed cycle.

[quote]Messor17 wrote:
I’m sure this is going to come off as a horrible first post, but I feel that I need to have it answered. I’m currently 20 years old, and I have been training for 4 1/2 years consistently. My diet has been more than strict for the past 3 years. The gains have continuously come, but I feel that it is time to take things to another level. I have done tons of research on the topic and have decided to run my first cycle with Test-E and D-bol. My only problem is that I do have a very mild case of gyno from puberty. To prevent this from flaring any more, I will start to run 25mg of letro 2 weeks before I begin my cycle. This is how everything will look:

Week 1-12
25mg Letro

Week 1-4
200mg Test-E E3D
25mg D-Bol ED

Week 5-6
200mg Test-E E3D

Week 7-12
Test Taper
100E3D
80 E3D
60 E3D
40 E3D
20 E3d
10 E3D

For my PCT I will use Nolva. Since I am tapering I don’t see a real need for Clomid. The main reason for the Nolva is to help with an Estrogen rebound from the Letro. Do you believe this will be enough to prevent the gyno from getting any worse? And do you see any major flaws in my plan? Any and all advice is well appreciated. [/quote]

Well, letro is pretty powerful. I don’t think you should run in for 12 weeks. Look into Adex. You can start off running it at a low dose EOD or E3D and up it if necessary.

Second, you are using too low a dose of Test for too short a time. Up the dose to 250E3D and run for 10-12 weeks. If this is your first, you could even drop the Dbol or follow Eales advice.

Third, not sure if it’s a typo but your taper is set up wrong. You should run the 100mg stage for several weeks. This is the statis portion before tapering down. And it isn’t 100E3D, it’s 100mg/week. Think about it. If your plan is to do 400mg/week, why would you run a statis at virtually the same amount. Same for the other weeks in the taper.

Of course, it is early and I could completely be off on this so hopefully someone more alert will chime in.

And I don’t care about the size of your wrists, but you may want to hold off on the cycle for a couple more years given your age.

with test E at 400 a week you would probably want to run it for at least 10 or 12 weeks, since your stuff will only start kicking in around the 4 or the 5 week

[quote]2thepain wrote:
Cycle looks OK. Newbies have posted a lot worse. I have 2 suggestions:

  1. bump up your dbol dosage. 25mg/day is too little, I think at least 30-40mg/day would be better.

  2. Do not run letro for the entire cycle, especially since this is a light cycle. If anything run .5mg adex ed. You should be fine with that, even with preexisting gyno. Running letro with this cycle is overkill and will kill your joints by the end. I ran letro one time and by the end of my cycle My hips, knees and shoulders were making training very painful.[/quote]

So would you agree with another poster that 50mg/day for 2 weeks would be much more effective? I’ve also read several posts that say if you wait longer into the cycle it seems to have stronger effects.

I appreciate the adex advice. I’ll definitely look into it. I wasn’t dead set on letro; but I had heard from several sources that it is the best AI for blocking estrogen, so I thought it would be the safest bet.

Again, thank you for the input

[quote]2thepain wrote:
Sorry for the repost but I just noticed that you are only running your cycle for six weeks and then tapering off…

And then I noticed that your taper is kind of screwed up. You need to reread Prisoners taper thread and then repost your proposed cycle.[/quote]

Thank you. I’ll take a closer look this time and get back to it.

[quote]Agon wrote:
with test E at 400 a week you would probably want to run it for at least 10 or 12 weeks, since your stuff will only start kicking in around the 4 or the 5 week[/quote]

It’s 600mg a week? But thank you for the input.

You have got to be kidding me.

You’re still hitting natural peak levels of testosterone.

You don’t need steroids. You’re only TWENTY.

[quote]Messor17 wrote:
Agon wrote:
with test E at 400 a week you would probably want to run it for at least 10 or 12 weeks, since your stuff will only start kicking in around the 4 or the 5 week

It’s 600mg a week? But thank you for the input.
[/quote]
200mg E3D = 400mg

You don’t need gear.

[quote]Messor17 wrote:
Agon wrote:
with test E at 400 a week you would probably want to run it for at least 10 or 12 weeks, since your stuff will only start kicking in around the 4 or the 5 week

It’s 600mg a week? But thank you for the input.
[/quote]

Sorry man but Agon’s right its 400mg a week dont know how you think your getting 600 out of 200 shot E3D? and you need to run for 10-12 weeks. if your going to run 6 you need to shoot prop and thatd be ED

[quote]Inner Hulk wrote:
You have got to be kidding me.

You’re still hitting natural peak levels of testosterone.

You don’t need steroids. You’re only TWENTY.[/quote]

I agree with the hulk. 20 is rather young to be starting AAS use. A couple more years of fine tuning would do you some good. You stated that the gains have come along well, let them keep coming.

This is coming from someone who ran his first cycle at age 21. And to this day I still wish I had waited.

I may get called a douchebag for this, I don’t really care though. I think you should either wait 4 or 5 more years or try something like a nice two week oral only cycle. Those are easy to recover from, and could give you some decent gains. You will need PCT even for a two weeker though, IMO.

to messor17 how tall are you? weight?

Well firstly, you are a bit young, but whatever-- to each his own.

However, if you’re going to do it, then actually do it right. You obviously want to run a shorter cycle, but in order to get the most out of it you will still have to run it more than 6 weeks. 8 would be perfect actually, it’s only 2 more weeks but makes a huge difference. A proper dose for 8 weeks would be 700-850 mg a week. It may be your first cycle, but shorter cycles are proven to have been easier to recover from, after it’s more of a question regarding how LONG you are on, as opposed to how much or what it consists of.

At the same time, if you must stay with a low dose, then be prepared to increase it even more so that you get 500-600mg a week. And then be prepared to run it for 12 weeks.

And your taper needs work. It is not an E3D sort of thing, so get that straight right now-- it’s a weekly dose. A proper test taper would consist of a 4 week stasis period at 100mg for a short cycle (8 weeks) and an extended taper for anything over that, so 6-8 weeks. And then the taper itself is a 5-7 week process dropping 20mg total per week (not per dose).

You can take or leave the oral, they won’t make that big a difference with your small dose. Your best bet is to use it at 30-40mg a day after the first two weeks of your cycle if you’re running a shorter one, after the first 4-6 if you’re running a longer one.

To be perfectly honest with ya bud, this whole thing just seems completely bastardized if ya ask me. You just need to figure out what you’re doing and then do it right…

World