T Nation

Newbie Question Spree: HCG/AI, Ball Size, Sterility

Hej i have some questions.

  1. If, i have understood correctly, people take TRT with HCG right? With or without AI?

  2. Jay Campell dosent use HCG or AI. What will this do?

  3. Lets say i take TRT for 1 year will my balls, be as small as raisens? And is it possible to get your balls to normal size

  4. What about sterility?

Thanks :slight_smile:

  1. Many, but not all, guys on TRT also use HCG. Usual dose is around 500 IU/week split into at least 3 injections. I use about double that, but I am not cost sensitive and have had none of the discernible side-effects that some claim to have.

Use of AI is controversial in this forum. I do not use them and my recommendation is that if you do TRT correctly with frequent dosing of moderate amounts of T, you should not need one. There are some rare guys that hyperconvert T to E, and they may need to consider low dose AI, but ONLY if you have the correct labs to document the problem. Even then, you should first look at your T dose and frequency and consider adjustments there first. Another situation where guys may need an E blocker (not AI) is when they have a history of gynecomastia. These individuals will always be sensitive to E2 and may need to block it’s effects, even when E2 is within the normal range.

  1. HCG is predominately used to maintain testicular size while on TRT. It works well if your testicles were working properly before TRT (I.e., you are not primary). There are some (myself included) that believe that stimulation of LH receptors in other glands of the body also have a beneficial effect beyond maintaining testicular size. It has been my observation (as well as many others) that without HCG, ejaculate volume will decrease over time. This is because the Seminal Vesicles, which produce about 60% of the volume of the ejaculate, also have LH receptors and need an LH signal to function properly. Some believe that stimulation of LH receptors in the adrenal glands are important for the production of the pre-hormones DHEA and Pregnenolone. Perhaps this is true, but they can also be easily obtained from supplementation.

  2. Yes, testicular size will more than likely decrease within the first 6 months while on TRT. The amount of decrease is highly dependent on the individual. Some see very little, and others (like myself) see a lot. Mine shrink to the size of almonds without HCG. Getting them back to ‘normal’ is dependent on how well you respond to HCG. You have to try it to see.

  3. Yes, you will most likely become sterile without HCG. There is debate whether HCG alone can maintain sterility. I have seen posts from guys that have been successful in conceiving a child with just HCG and posts from guys that struggle with a combination of therapies. My advice, is that if fertility is important to you, then you should be taking a minimum of 500 IU of HCG per week and consider bumping that up to 1000 IU if you can afford it. There are 2 good studies that show that 1000 IU per week is the magic number to overcome some of the negative affects of TRT on fertility.

2 Likes

Almond size with or without shells? Just curious…

With the shell!

Hi I have a quick question has anyone heard of guys taking T along with clomid if so what are your thoughts about it?

I did an experiment for a couple months about 5 years ago when I was concerned about my HCG supply chain (which has since been secured). I tried various doses and frequency intervals of clomid. I hated all of doses/frequencies because of estrogen like side-effects, but it was tolerable at 12.5 mg per day.

I did not do any blood work, so that was a limitation to interpreting results from the experiment, but I did not notice a reduction in testicular size, even after 8 weeks. That was when I secured a script from my doc for my current dose (1050 IU per week), and I have no desire to try Clomid again.

I might consider someday an experiment with the purified isomer enclomiphene if a reliable source could be found. i like the thought of easy oral dosing of a drug that enhances GnRH secretion so that you get the benefit of both enhanced LH and FSH production without the estrogenic side-effects of Clomid due to the presence of the isomer zuclomiphine.

I have tried clomid mono therapy before it worked pretty well but the affects started to diminished after about 3 months.
But my questions is have you ever tried clomid along with testosterone at the same time?

Yes, the previous post explains that experience. That was while taking a dose of 40 mg T-cyp E3D.

God bless you Sir. I might have more questions but as right now, i have to chew on this.

I used HCG for about a year to address atrophy. It worked very well. Started with 375 IU 3 X weekly. Positives: It also raised my TT a decent amount, increase size (nut’s, that’s all, sorry). Lowered to 250 IU 3 X weekly, kept the size, not as much of a TT boost but a little.

Now the downsides: HCG can spike E2, and E2 symptoms such as water gain (just like a chick before her period, bloat), I was always extremely warm/hot. I felt it and the wife would always comment about it.

Forget about “no AI” if you’re introducing HCG into the mix, HCG makes E2 harder to control without an AI.

My recommendation, which was told to me before I started and I was impatient and didn’t want to hear it is this… Get totally dialed in on your testosterone dosage before you introduce any other items into the mix. Then use HCG for 3 weeks or so when you want to increase nut size. When size is back, be done till the next time hopefully a few months. HCG is only good for 30 -45 days in the fridge and costs me about $85 a vial.

Just stuff to consider for my personal experience.

HCG doesnt require the use of an AI. I use about 500iu a week with no AI. BTW, my HCG vial has lasted me about 4 months in the fridge, and it may be time to mix up a new vial. Its still doing its job since my nuts feel full and I know the difference because I went through a period of time with no HCG. You will notice that there is a lot of hearsay and parroting without the experience.

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I don’t know that I’ve ever gone that long, but I always exceed the label directions of using it for not more than 60 days once reconstituted. We don’t know what’s driving the label indications from the manufacturer, but my bet it has more to do with preventing contamination in a multi-use vial than it does stability of the product. I usually use my 10,000 IU vial up within about 10 weeks, which slightly exceeds the label directions. There have been times when I don’t inject for a week or two while on vacation, so sometimes I stretch that even further to 12 weeks. I don’t notice any decrease in testicular size as the batch ages.

Also agree strongly with your comment “You will notice that there is a lot of hearsay and parroting without the experience.” I usually caution newbies to be careful about who’s advice they follow and generally be skeptical of advice from anyone who has not been on a stable protocol of TRT for at least 1 year, preferable >5 years. I don’t think there’s anything nefarious about the advice being given, but rather an over exuberance of excitement when we first get started and a desire to share that with others. However, we need to keep in mind that we are a moving target that first couple of years and advice from a moving target can be detrimental to your own experience. Enough said.

If you say so. Just keep it simple. Test only at first, then add HCG. No AI.

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I use 700ui weekly without any AI in addition to my 160mg t dosage

do you buy it online?

Ok let me get this straight. HCG will keep my ball size, but its not sure that it will maintain sterility? Also when you say E blocker for gyno, what do you mean? AI is not used for gyno?

Thanks

Consensus here is that a SERM like nolvadex is best for gyno since it blocks the E2 receptors in breast tissue, but still allows the positives of E2 to continue to benefit us (libido, erections, muscle growth, etc.) AIs can lead to E2 rebound upon stopping and can drop E2 levels way too low during use.

There is still in the pharmacies here now there is disruption due to the corona shit I have supplies for a few months ahead and hope it is back in the pharmacies soon