T Nation

Newbie Plateu

Background info…~2 years ago i was at 300ish pounds, lost it down to 155 the wrong way, lost all the muscle with the fat. Stayed around 180 for a few months, and then got informed. I’ve been eating right and training for about a year now, and gone from 38% BF at 180 to 14% BF at 188, which is where i am right now. I’m 23, 6’0.

After a month off last X-mas (and gaining ~5 lbs), i resolved to cut and see if i can get to single digit BF. The problem is that i’ve hit a plateau this early on, and not had a change for ~2.5 weeks now.

I use a split routine for lifting 3 days a week and fasted cardio the other 4 days. I’m also using HOT-ROX extreme. My diet looks like…

Breakfast: 1/2 cup oats, cup eggbeaters
M1: chicken + veggies
Lift
PWO shake of dextrose/whey 2:1 ratio
M3: Chicken + veggies + Brown rice
M4: natural PB, some lean meat
Bed: Fat free cottage cheese, flax oil
230g protein, 130g carb, 60g fat, ~2k calories

Cardio days are the same w/o the PWO shake, and with another lean protein/veggies meal to even it out.

The totals on Cardio days come to 290g pro, 70g carb, 60g fat.

Anyway…anyone who has been in a similar situation and also fears that his metabolism is just f’ked ^_^, feel free to please advise me

Thanks!

More cardio and more intense, if that does not work even more cardio, if that does not work slowly cut back on calories and add a fat burner, and consider adding BCAAS during cut. Drink 4 liters of water per day. Keep most of your calories at breakfast and peri-workout. Could jump on the wagon and try the velocity diet.

Why chase the single-digit bodyfat at this point? You’ve made awesome progress - how about adding some more muscle while keeping your BF in the same range?

[quote]icecold wrote:
More cardio and more intense, if that does not work even more cardio, if that does not work slowly cut back on calories and add a fat burner, and consider adding BCAAS during cut. Drink 4 liters of water per day. Keep most of your calories at breakfast and peri-workout. Could jump on the wagon and try the velocity diet.[/quote]

That’s great advice…to completely destroy someone’s metabolism and cause them to possibly start gaining body fat in the process with no muscle gains. You can’t just keep starving the human body and expect it to hold onto muscle. His body is telling him that he’s already done damage.

He should INCREASE his calories until he is either maintaining his body weight or GAINING muscular body weight slowly until he repairs that damage. As his metabolism increases (which may take MONTHS), it will slowly get back to where it needs to be to maintain any muscle gained.

Then he can worry about further fat loss…which he may want to reconsider given that he is 6 feet tall and trying to drop below 170lbs just to be lean as if muscle doesn’t matter at all.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
icecold wrote:
More cardio and more intense, if that does not work even more cardio, if that does not work slowly cut back on calories and add a fat burner, and consider adding BCAAS during cut. Drink 4 liters of water per day. Keep most of your calories at breakfast and peri-workout. Could jump on the wagon and try the velocity diet.

That’s great advice…to completely destroy someone’s metabolism and cause them to possibly start gaining body fat in the process with no muscle gains. You can’t just keep starving the human body and expect it to hold onto muscle. His body is telling him that he’s already done damage.

He should INCREASE his calories until he is either maintaining his body weight or GAINING muscular body weight slowly until he repairs that damage. As his metabolism increases (which may take MONTHS), it will slowly get back to where it needs to be to maintain any muscle gained.

Then he can worry about further fat loss…which he may want to reconsider given that he is 6 feet tall and trying to drop below 170lbs just to be lean as if muscle doesn’t matter at all.[/quote]

Prof X has good advice and I would take his advice over mine. Calorie restriction should be a last resort. Most pro athletes are very lean and still carry a good bit of muscle. They tend to get a lot of high intensity cardio, eat big, and lift as allowed in their season and heavier in off season. Most wish we could loose fat and gain muscle at the same time but this is very, very hard and most are forced to choose more towards one side of the spectrum, depending on their goals. No one wants to go from fat to skinny fat like Jared of subway. You will find plenty of advice from FFB on this site.
Best of luck

[quote]Professor X wrote:
icecold wrote:
More cardio and more intense, if that does not work even more cardio, if that does not work slowly cut back on calories and add a fat burner, and consider adding BCAAS during cut. Drink 4 liters of water per day. Keep most of your calories at breakfast and peri-workout. Could jump on the wagon and try the velocity diet.

That’s great advice…to completely destroy someone’s metabolism and cause them to possibly start gaining body fat in the process with no muscle gains. You can’t just keep starving the human body and expect it to hold onto muscle. His body is telling him that he’s already done damage.

He should INCREASE his calories until he is either maintaining his body weight or GAINING muscular body weight slowly until he repairs that damage. As his metabolism increases (which may take MONTHS), it will slowly get back to where it needs to be to maintain any muscle gained.

Then he can worry about further fat loss…which he may want to reconsider given that he is 6 feet tall and trying to drop below 170lbs just to be lean as if muscle doesn’t matter at all.[/quote]

This is spot on advice.

I will say when I wrecked my metabolism it didd literally take about a year and half to get it back. It may sound odd but one thing that rerally helped (if you have not been relting on fat burners as I didnt) was to up my intake and use Red Bands at the time which is now HOT-ROX only not as good.

But anyway I upped my intake and took them and within a month my maint intake raised over 800 k/cals a day just to maintain and it stayed when I stopped the use of the HOT-ROX. May be something to try

O do agree your first and only mission needs to be getting your body functioning correctly

Phill

Oh I will add I was nearly the same situation 24 y/o, 6 ft went from 300-215 then CRAZY diet and training down to 165 that wrecked my body.

Phill

I spent the last 11 months building myself back up, its not like im starting cold now. I’ve BEEN weight training, tripled my bench, put on tons of strength gains, and increased my calories from ~1000 a day w/ no exercise to maintain to what it is today (2000+ /w exercise). I think, (hope?) thats a solid base.

Anyway, the reason i want to cut is because the fat i have left is very saggy. I know if i can get my BF low enough, it will regress to stretch marks (i’ve checked, 100% sure), and to be honest, it is really always on my mind. Aesthetically, i look fine with clothes on, but not off, and it kills my confidence.

Anyway, i’ve read and read and read for 11 months about fitness and etc, and i’m hoping to figure out why i can’t progress, or if it is, for some reason i cant see right now, impossible for me to progress with a cut.

Advice and opinions welcome, thanks very much!

[quote]Tenken667 wrote:
I spent the last 11 months building myself back up, its not like im starting cold now. I’ve BEEN weight training, tripled my bench, put on tons of strength gains, and increased my calories from ~1000 a day w/ no exercise to maintain to what it is today (2000+ /w exercise). I think, (hope?) thats a solid base.

Anyway, the reason i want to cut is because the fat i have left is very saggy. I know if i can get my BF low enough, it will regress to stretch marks (i’ve checked, 100% sure), and to be honest, it is really always on my mind. Aesthetically, i look fine with clothes on, but not off, and it kills my confidence.

Anyway, i’ve read and read and read for 11 months about fitness and etc, and i’m hoping to figure out why i can’t progress, or if it is, for some reason i cant see right now, impossible for me to progress with a cut.

Advice and opinions welcome, thanks very much!
[/quote]

You lost over 100lbs of body fat. There is a chance you will always have loose skin. There are no guarantees as this is something where you wait and see how your body will respond (since it is based on age, genetics, and the amount of weight lost). Losing even MORE weight will not cause less loose skin. If anything, there will be MORE loose skin.

2,000cals a day for an active male is LESS than most people would need to just maintain their body weight and even less than many would need to lose weight.

[quote]Tenken667 wrote:
I spent the last 11 months building myself back up, its not like im starting cold now. I’ve BEEN weight training, tripled my bench, put on tons of strength gains, and increased my calories from ~1000 a day w/ no exercise to maintain to what it is today (2000+ /w exercise). I think, (hope?) thats a solid base.[/quote]

My WIFE, who is active but certainly is not training for an Ironman, needs 1800 cals to maintain her weight. She weighs 121 lbs.

So give me the bottom line guys, throw me right into the fire…

Will i be able to finish cutting as i it sounds like i am now, or will it be pretty much impossible?

And if it is impossible…any articles or links to refer me to for what i must do next instead would be great, thanks :slight_smile:

frustrated

[quote]Tenken667 wrote:
So give me the bottom line guys, throw me right into the fire…

Will i be able to finish cutting as i it sounds like i am now, or will it be pretty much impossible?

And if it is impossible…any articles or links to refer me to for what i must do next instead would be great, thanks :slight_smile:

frustrated[/quote]

I’m confused…were the posts above not written in English?

You were told what to do. Now is the part where you act like you weren’t and keep asking the same questions over and over again until someone calls you a name you don’t like.

Lol. That made me giggle. My last actually question wasn’t addressed, just so you can be content; I last asked if i would be able to do it, IE possible, not what you thought i should do in the situation. But its ok, being a dick is fine too. Have fun man. Oh, that was in english.

[quote]Tenken667 wrote:
Lol. That made me giggle. My last actually question wasn’t addressed, just so you can be content; I last asked if i would be able to do it, IE possible, not what you thought i should do in the situation. But its ok, being a dick is fine too. Have fun man. Oh, that was in english.[/quote]

Uh, your question was addressed…that you need to quit cutting for right now and repair your metabolism. I know, it isn’t what you wanted to hear, but that was written way back in that FIRST response to you. So, tell me again about how it wasn’t addressed. Oh, and that’s English there too.

[quote]Tenken667 wrote:
Lol. That made me giggle. My last actually question wasn’t addressed, just so you can be content; I last asked if i would be able to do it, IE possible, not what you thought i should do in the situation. But its ok, being a dick is fine too. Have fun man. Oh, that was in english.[/quote]

I have a feeling your going to do what you want anyway, but what you’ve been told here (free of charge) is THE answer to your situation if long term consistent results mean anything to you.

Even possibly the loose skin. Let’s think for a minute. What would tighten up that up aside from a continued reduction in the volume of skin you carry? I’m gonna go way out on a limb here and say filling it with something. Your choice, fat or muscle? Or like the Professor said you can keep getting smaller until you look like a starving shar pei.

Grrr, definitely not what i wanted to hear, but it adds up with the results, so i do appreciate the honesty and will take the advice.

I’m planning on increasing by 250 cals/day every week till i start getting near the right weight gain and BMR numbers. Any advice on routine changes, or should i just cut down on the cardio and roll with it???

Thanks!

[quote]Tenken667 wrote:
Grrr, definitely not what i wanted to hear, but it adds up with the results, so i do appreciate the honesty and will take the advice.

I’m planning on increasing by 250 cals/day every week till i start getting near the right weight gain and BMR numbers. Any advice on routine changes, or should i just cut down on the cardio and roll with it???

Thanks![/quote]

I’m not sure you should just “roll with it”, as you appear to have just winged it all along- but definitely cut back on the cardio and start eating more.

As everyone has said- the only possible way for you to improve your situation is to build some muscle. Trust me I know.

I was in a very similar situation to you a few years ago. Lost over 100lbs. 3 years later- added back close to 50lbs or so (mostly lean mass). No loose skin. At all. You can do it if you are dedicated and willing to do what it takes.

Winged it, grr lol…Dedication isn’t a problem, i have followed what the research told me to a T for over a year…i just didn’t research enough, and i managed to mess it up :slight_smile:

Over 100 and now no loose skin? Wow. That is rather inspirational, every story i’ve read and everyone i’ve consulted said that wouldn’t be very likely…but if there’s a chance, i’ll give it a go!

But yeah, i do plan to bulk for a nice long time, just asking someone who’s done it in a similar situation if it sounds about right, since the posts i’ve found are really non-descript…

Planning a 4 day split lifting, 2 days of HIIT, and increasing calories 250per day each week till gaining ~.5-1 lb a week.

[quote]Tenken667 wrote:
Planning a 4 day split lifting, 2 days of HIIT, and increasing calories 250per day each week till gaining ~.5-1 lb a week.[/quote]

That should do just fine.

As for the loose skin issue. That is a very individual thing. If you are going tighten up it will take a long time. Think about how long it was stretched for. If it’s excessive then chances are you may not lose it all, but it has to be pretty excessive.