T Nation

Newbie Cycle (Special Case)


Hi all,

Thanks for taking time out to check my thread. I am a 25 year old personal trainer, have been training consistently for over 5 years. I have made my share of mistakes with nutrition and training, and learned from my mistakes like most people.

About me: I am an ectomorph and add muscle pretty slowly. I am 6'0 and currently weighing 170lbs (at 10%). My training and diet are both good and consistent.

My history with supplements: I have taken natural test boosters over a year and a half back [T bomb II, formadrol extreme. I cycled them both [did it 3 times in total], put on about 6 lbs in total and weighed my heaviest at 176lbs at 9%. I consistently supplement with whey, casein, pre-workout, multi-vitamins, and glutamine.

My goal: 186 lbs at 9%.

Why am I different?: Unlike other newbies on this site, I don't want to put on 20 -30 lbs and shed 30 lbs of fat. I don't want to make all my gains over a month. I just want to make steady gains slowly and maintain the mass. I have specific goals, my delts and calves are extremely stubborn and this is where I wish to see most results.

What I need?
I need advise. I don't want to make a mistake I'll regret. I don't anything highly anabolic, I don't want any serious or irreversible side effects (especially hair loss or loss of sex drive). I've read Anavar or primobolin depot is good for putting on small amounts of muscle and maintain it with little or no side effects. I've also read that these products don't require any PCT. However I am highly skeptical. Kindly advise.

P.S. I am not looking for a dealer. I just want some quality information from someone with some good experience.


If I got flamed for my posts

It would be a tragedy if you didn't


I think you and "The Peanut" are the same person..?

steroids for, 'My goal: 186 at 9% and 6ft tall' <---- hahaha


Well that was far from helpful...please refrain from leaving useless wise ass comments... I'm here seeking knowledge..


You want knowledge? Eat a truckload more, train your ass for another decade, and then try steroids...At 170 you dont need steroids, you need to eat correctly and train consistently and correctly. Layout out you daily nutrition plan and your workout plan, I guess we could find ways to help you.


Your goals may be different than some people (but Id bet that almost everyone has different goals) but you are no different in that you are expected to read the stickied threads before posting.

Come up with a cycle plan and hope someone knowledgeable fixes any mistakes.

With that said. 170lbs at 6ft tall is very small. You look a little bigger than that but all that says is that you probably have good potential.

The honest truth is you absolutely should not need steroids to reach your goals. Everything about your posts screams 'i do not need drugs'. You dont want to be big. You dont want fast results. You dont want to deal with side effects.

Dont blame being an ectomorph. Have you ever actually pushed your caloric intake? I use the term 'pushed' very lightly. People are either laughing or shaking their heads when they read that someone thinks they need drugs to go from 170 to186 at 6ft tall. That's just the truth.

How much weight have you gained over the past 2 months? I ask this because you are clearly nowhere near your genetic potential. And if the answer is 0 then you simply dont know how to eat to grow. Steroids wont change that, ESPECIALLY in the long term sense.


come back when you get 220 lbs and have a clear plan... Nothing personal, but its too early for you
You are way to small to try harsh stuff. Seriously


Thank you guys for the honest replies. If you guys could suggest what's wrong with my diet it would be helpful too...
Currently consuming about 275 - 310 gs of protein... My samplie diet looks like this

I wake up ( 35 gs protein shake (whey. Casen) 4 eggs)
Next meal 1 chicken breast with whole grain bread/brown rice / whole wheat pita/ sweet potatoes
Pre gym 25 gs shake
Post workout 60 g shake (whey casien),
Post gym meal ( an hour after shake)
1chicken breast/salmon/extra lean ground beef (occasionally thighs and drumsticks) with whole grain bread/brown rice/ sweet potatoes.
Followed by a similar meal 3 hours later.. And a shake before I sleep casein.

Lettuce and fruits are accompanied with some of the meals

All meals are spread apart by an average of 3 hours... I don't think I get enough carbs, but don't want to pack on too much fat.

another reason I was considering gear was because of recovery... I have had constant knee, shoulder and elblow problems..

I'm squatting about 350lbs and deadlifting about 375lbs.

Benching hurts my elbows and shoulders and squatting hurts my knees..


Your diet is pretty shitty. But good thing there's a nutrtion forum for that.

You eat hardly any dietary fat. That's a problem. A big one.

Your body is likely using protein for fuel since you dont take in enough fat or carbs. This is substantial hindrance when trying to improve body composition.


Quick advice to adding quality weight. Read everything that John Meadows has written on this sight regarding nutrition.

EDIT: Read everything that John Meadows has written on this sight regarding anything.


You got to be joking...
This is the exact reason why I don't use a personal trainer, trying to weed out the real personal trainers from ones like you is a near impossible task.

That's barely any calories there. And I don't even know where to begin. Are you even a personal trainer? They should understand the importance of nutrition.

Gaining muscle and size isn't just eating a lot of protein and nothing else, your body uses carbs as is main source for energy. Add a balanced amount of carbs and fats to your diet and your gains will improve dramatically. Don't worry about gaining fat, if you want to gain mass, a little bit of fat is unavoidable but using a correct diet you'll put on minimal fat which you can just shed when you reach your desired size.



Looking at your avatar, you are already quite lean. Given your body type, you will be able to shed any unwanted fat that you gain along the way quickly. I'm willing to bet that you find it hard to eat enough food to grow, so I would suggest that you drink it.

Augment your diet with a shake or two a day consisting of 1-1 1/2 cups of oats, 1 cup of blueberries, half of a large tub of cottage cheese, a scoop of protein powder, and a giant tablespoon full of natural peanut butter. Pound two a day, if you start getting too fat, reduce the size or drop one completely. Pound a lot of olive oil down your neck as well and start eating fattier meat. You just have to up your calories and you'll do fine.

Keep in mind, that you haven't struggled with staying lean, you've struggled with adding mass. So, don't worry about getting a little softer just so long as you're getting bigger, you'll be able to shed that with some smart training and an appropriate diet when the time comes.

As for shoulders, long-limbed guys like your self generally need to do more isolation work than those with shorter levers to cap off the delts, so just make sure that you're hitting lateral variations with lots of volume and different rep ranges. Also, keep in mind that you can hit delts several times a week just so long as you're smart about it.

You can hit calves two or three times a week as well. Just be sure not to bounce too much, as that's just relying on the elasticity of the achilles tendon largely. Pause for two seconds in the stretch position and two at the top for most of your sets.

As to the AAS advice, I'll leave that for someone with actual first-hand experience.

Best of luck.


Thanks for the help guys... I'm going to improve my diet


Yikes to this happening at those weights and at 25 years old


You should hire a personal trainer to teach you correct form so your pain goes away. Oh wait...


joint pain will be reduced with the addition of healthy dietary fats.


Do you ever have cheat meals?

They are a good way to get the mass gaining going. Like was said before, you won't have an issue dropping any fat you gain.

By cheat meal, I don't mean splurge on a slice of pizza. I mean get some fucking food in you. I used to do the Dave Tate shit and sit down with a large pizza, with some olive oil drizzled on it and a half gallon or sometimes gallon of milk, and not get up till its gone.

If you can't eat a lot, then drink it. The recipe above is good.

My favorite shake is
4 scoops Maximus weight gainer (Atlarge nutrition)
1.5 cups oats
4-5 eggs
20-32oz whole milk
then either nesquick or chocolate ice cream to taste.


That cheat meal sounds deadly, but yes I get 2 cheat meals in and trust me I go ape shit!
anyone got a good article for nutrition tips for mass gain?