New York Times: Op-Ed Idiots

[orion]

[quote]hedo wrote:

A “neo-liberal”?

[/quote]

[rant]

Please don`t call them that, that allready has a meaning in Europe and the term liberal really gets raped by everyone with a collectivist agenda.

Doesn`t matter if its an American neo-con, Christian fundamentalist, a European social-democrat or the Vatican, if there is one thing they all hate it is liberalism, as in free thinking individualists that cannot be convinced to serve their agenda.

I think I have seen liberalism attacked and misrepresented from every angle now and it is allways the same, collectivism vs individualism.

The fact that American “liberals” often are collectivists, though liberal when it comes to things like drugs or gay marriage, does not make things easier.

Funny though that so many people can agree that if its one thing they hate it is people that take freedom and personal responsibility seriously.

Fucking herd animals…

I guess sheeple is the right term…

[/rant]

[rainjack]

[quote]juninho wrote:
rainjack wrote:
GDollars37 wrote:
And what, pray tell, would attacking Iran accomplish? We can’t invade, both because we’re overstretched as it is in Iraq and Afghanistan, both of which are not going well, and because an invasion and occupation of Iran would be Iraq times 10.

Define “over stretched”.

Define “not going well”.

Explain how Iran will be “10 times worse”.

I think you just parrot the peacenik talking points.

conversely: rebuke his points.[/quote]

He made the statements. I am asking how he defines them.

You don’t have a very deep grasp of how to debate - do you?

[rainjack]

[quote]GDollars37 wrote:
rainjack wrote:
GDollars37 wrote:
And what, pray tell, would attacking Iran accomplish? We can’t invade, both because we’re overstretched as it is in Iraq and Afghanistan, both of which are not going well, and because an invasion and occupation of Iran would be Iraq times 10.

Define “over stretched”.

Define “not going well”.

Explain how Iran will be “10 times worse”.

I think you just parrot the peacenik talking points.

And as for Iran, that should be obvious. They weren’t crippled by sanctions, it’s a much bigger country, those who would support the regime are largely fanatics, i.e. suicide attacks would be the norm, and they have already shown they are very adept at this kind of warfare, as seen with their Hezbollah proteges.

Do you have any Administration talking points you want to parrot, preferably with evidence behind them?[/quote]

I don’t see how Iran will be 10 times harder. But if that’s what you think…I will leave you to it.

We are fighting a bunch of Iranians right now. Most of the insurgents are foreign, and many of them are Iranian.

I could give a shit about a ground invasion of Iran. All we need to do to remove the threat is to bomb the shit out of their “nuclear energy” facilities.

Iran is one place that is ripe for a regime change - especially since they are stripping human rights faster than a drunk cheerleader can get her clothes off on prom night.

However - I am still waiting on how you define “overstretched” - and “not going well”.

[hedo]

[quote]orion wrote:
hedo wrote:

A “neo-liberal”?

[rant]

Please don`t call them that, that allready has a meaning in Europe and the term liberal really gets raped by everyone with a collectivist agenda.

Doesn`t matter if its an American neo-con, Christian fundamentalist, a European social-democrat or the Vatican, if there is one thing they all hate it is liberalism, as in free thinking individualists that cannot be convinced to serve their agenda.

I think I have seen liberalism attacked and misrepresented from every angle now and it is allways the same, collectivism vs individualism.

The fact that American “liberals” often are collectivists, though liberal when it comes to things like drugs or gay marriage, does not make things easier.

Funny though that so many people can agree that if its one thing they hate it is people that take freedom and personal responsibility seriously.

Fucking herd animals…

I guess sheeple is the right term…

[/rant]

[/quote]

That’s Europe for you…

[orion]

[quote]hedo wrote:

That’s Europe for you…

[/quote]

yeah, because the American use of the word “liberal” is so much better…

In many ways we are a free-er society than the US, and I kid you not.

We pay for it (literally) with a semi-socialist system though, which is of course inherently not free…

[rainjack]

[quote]orion wrote:
hedo wrote:

That’s Europe for you…

yeah, because the American use of the word “liberal” is so much better…

In many ways we are a free-er society than the US, and I kid you not.

We pay for it (literally) with a semi-socialist system though, which is of course inherently not free…

[/quote]

But made much cheaper since you guys suck the american tit for your defense.

“Liberal” has been bastardized here in the U.S. just as much as the word “conservative”.

To say that a conservative (american bastardization) cannot have a liberal (classic definition)thought process is utter stupidity.

One might even go so far as to say that the liberals (bastardized) are far, far more conservative (classic) than the conservatives (bastardized). This is especially true when it comes to elections - where the left still uses the same playbook that FDR wrote over 60 years ago.

[hedo]

[quote]orion wrote:
hedo wrote:

That’s Europe for you…

yeah, because the American use of the word “liberal” is so much better…

In many ways we are a free-er society than the US, and I kid you not.

We pay for it (literally) with a semi-socialist system though, which is of course inherently not free…

[/quote]

I am sure that is the current cosmopolitan thought in the EU these days.

[GDollars37]

[quote]rainjack wrote:
GDollars37 wrote:
rainjack wrote:
GDollars37 wrote:
And what, pray tell, would attacking Iran accomplish? We can’t invade, both because we’re overstretched as it is in Iraq and Afghanistan, both of which are not going well, and because an invasion and occupation of Iran would be Iraq times 10.

Define “over stretched”.

Define “not going well”.

Explain how Iran will be “10 times worse”.

I think you just parrot the peacenik talking points.

And as for Iran, that should be obvious. They weren’t crippled by sanctions, it’s a much bigger country, those who would support the regime are largely fanatics, i.e. suicide attacks would be the norm, and they have already shown they are very adept at this kind of warfare, as seen with their Hezbollah proteges.

Do you have any Administration talking points you want to parrot, preferably with evidence behind them?

I don’t see how Iran will be 10 times harder. But if that’s what you think…I will leave you to it.

We are fighting a bunch of Iranians right now. Most of the insurgents are foreign, and many of them are Iranian.
[/quote]

Most of the insurgents are foreign? Wow, you really have no idea what you’re talking about. It’s 10%, according to the U.S. military’s data. Again, do you read the paper, or just make stuff up?

I could give a shit about a ground invasion of Iran. All we need to do to remove the threat is to bomb the shit out of their “nuclear energy” facilities.

Iran is one place that is ripe for a regime change - especially since they are stripping human rights faster than a drunk cheerleader can get her clothes off on prom night.

And an air strike would accomplish regime change?!

[quote]
However - I am still waiting on how you define “overstretched” - and “not going well”. [/quote]

Did that several posts ago, take a look.

[orion]

[quote]hedo wrote:
orion wrote:
hedo wrote:

That’s Europe for you…

yeah, because the American use of the word “liberal” is so much better…

In many ways we are a free-er society than the US, and I kid you not.

We pay for it (literally) with a semi-socialist system though, which is of course inherently not free…

I am sure that is the current cosmopolitan thought in the EU these days.

[/quote]

Maybe, but we actually live here, so we have a rough idea what we are talking about.

The US criminal justice system alone is a discrace if you look at it from the outside.

More men behind bars than anywhere else, high mandatory minimums, three strikes-and-you`re-out-laws, unbelievably high sentences and still those incredibly high crime rates.

You have to understand that stuff like this simply does not happen in most, if not all European states.

Of course we have drug and steroid laws , but as long as you keep away from hard drugs all you get is a slap on the wrist, and even with a few kgs of cocain it would be only a few years => nobody that is sane shoots at the police, because that would REALLY mean trouble.

If there is something I really like about Austria it is that we ignore quite a lot of laws as long as noone gets hurt.

That may not be the classical definition of freedom, but it sure feels more free than politcians that run on though on crime tickets and ruin countless peoples lives.

[orion]

[quote]rainjack wrote:

But made much cheaper since you guys suck the american tit for your defense.

“Liberal” has been bastardized here in the U.S. just as much as the word “conservative”.

To say that a conservative (american bastardization) cannot have a liberal (classic definition)thought process is utter stupidity.

One might even go so far as to say that the liberals (bastardized) are far, far more conservative (classic) than the conservatives (bastardized). This is especially true when it comes to elections - where the left still uses the same playbook that FDR wrote over 60 years ago. [/quote]

What really pisses me off is that “liberal” which comes from libertas=freedom is used as an insult by the left (Europe) and the right (US).

No matter if you are a social-liberal or an economic-liberal, or God forbid both, i.e libertarian, people actually use it as an insult that you think that people should make their own decisions an be responsible for it and those fuckers do not even get that, though they usually critize it when they see it on the other side.

As if the freedom to run a company the way you want to was fundamentally different from the freedom who to fuck or marry.

[hedo]

[quote]orion wrote:
hedo wrote:
orion wrote:
hedo wrote:

That’s Europe for you…

yeah, because the American use of the word “liberal” is so much better…

In many ways we are a free-er society than the US, and I kid you not.

We pay for it (literally) with a semi-socialist system though, which is of course inherently not free…

I am sure that is the current cosmopolitan thought in the EU these days.

Maybe, but we actually live here, so we have a rough idea what we are talking about.

The US criminal justice system alone is a discrace if you look at it from the outside.

More men behind bars than anywhere else, high mandatory minimums, three strikes-and-you`re-out-laws, unbelievably high sentences and still those incredibly high crime rates.

You have to understand that stuff like this simply does not happen in most, if not all European states.

Of course we have drug and steroid laws , but as long as you keep away from hard drugs all you get is a slap on the wrist, and even with a few kgs of cocain it would be only a few years => nobody that is sane shoots at the police, because that would REALLY mean trouble.

If there is something I really like about Austria it is that we ignore quite a lot of laws as long as noone gets hurt.

That may not be the classical definition of freedom, but it sure feels more free than politcians that run on though on crime tickets and ruin countless peoples lives.[/quote]

Yes I’m sure when you get your news from sources such as TV that’s how things would appear.

Jail for criminals…yes we’re heartless towards them. We used to hang people for stealing horses and cattle too.

Good luck with the economy and that little problem you are having with the low birthrates your having in the socialist paradise.

[orion]

[quote]hedo wrote:

Yes I’m sure when you get your news from sources such as TV that’s how things would appear.

Jail for criminals…yes we’re heartless towards them. We used to hang people for stealing horses and cattle too.

Good luck with the economy and that little problem you are having with the low birthrates your having in the socialist paradise.

[/quote]

This “socialist” thing is also not entirely true, to it may appear so on TV :-)…

Sure our taxes may appear to be brutal, but if you are self-employed or run a company there are enough loophols to avoid that, plus the consequences of tax fraud are bearable, if you get caught at all.

Just because the government demands money does not mean it gets it.

[hedo]

[quote]orion wrote:
hedo wrote:

Yes I’m sure when you get your news from sources such as TV that’s how things would appear.

Jail for criminals…yes we’re heartless towards them. We used to hang people for stealing horses and cattle too.

Good luck with the economy and that little problem you are having with the low birthrates your having in the socialist paradise.

This “socialist” thing is also not entirely true, to it may appear so on TV :-)…

Sure our taxes may appear to be brutal, but if you are self-employed or run a company there are enough loophols to avoid that, plus the consequences of tax fraud are bearable, if you get caught at all.

Just because the government demands money does not mean it gets it.

[/quote]

Some things are universal then!

[Wreckless]

[quote]Hack Wilson wrote:
A load of crap.

Huh?

I’ll say it again.

Brain damage.
[/quote]

Well, if there’s anybody who knows first hand about brain damage, it’s probably you.