New Year Plan and Second Cycle

Been lurking on T nation for a good while, loving the articles!

Anyway way back I did an anavar only cycle which pushed me from 190 - 214 in 8 weeks.

I am now sitting at a slightly higher bf of 15%. I am currently doing Westside for fat bastards program, want to cut down to 200 12% bf by March before going on the cycle. I am going to be working on an Antarctica vessel for 2 months so injectable gear is out of the question until March. During which I’ll be cycling RS Transaderm and GW SARMS.

Now on to the March cycle:

Gear
1-10 weeks 400 mg Test E
1-10 weeks 400 mg Mast E
6-10 weeks 60 mg Anavar ED

on cycle support
1- 10 weeks 12.5 mg of aromasin Eod
1-10 weeks N2guard (NTBM)
6 - 17 weeks: HcGenerate (NTBM)
6-10 weeks; Liv 52

PCT
11 - 12 weeks: HCG 250iu daily
11-21 weeks: Forma stanzol ( 5 pumps day, 5 pumps night)
13 - 17 weeks: clomid 50/25/25/25
13- 21 weeks: unleashed (NBTM)
13- 21 weeks : Bridge (NBTM)
13 - 21 weeks : GW505156 (SARMS)

The goal of this cycle is really to get down to single digit BF and get my bench up from 315 - 365, squats from 450 - 525, deadlift from 470 - 550. This is really for preparing for summer since I have to be leading hikes with 30 kg rucksacks covering 8 hours of treacherous terrain for 14 days on 3 occasions. I want to stay lean and cardiovacularly fit, which is why I incorporated GW in the mix. Also do not wanna lose strength as I am planning to compete in a PL meet this coming Dec.

Please critique my cycle guys.

why not just keep it simple? i see a lot of things in there that you don’t need…

weeks 1-12
test E
tren E or deca

1-beginning of pct (consider tapering off during pct)
aromasin (has a really short half life, should be dosed 2x a day NOT eod…should be taken with food as well)

2-3 weeks after
nolva 40/40/20/20
clomid 100/100/50/50

eat well, sleep well, and lift…

anyone?

^^^ so your just gonna ignore Walkway.

I didn’t see walkway’s reply when I typed “anyone?”

I am trying to stay away from 19 nor, Tren is not my thing, as its spanks cardio too much, I don’t think the SARMS could even counter tren’s debilitating effects on my cardio.

The masteron is there for its affinity to bind to SHBG and free up Testosterone. Also to combat the estrogenic sides of the Test. Of course I have aromasin on hand for that.

The anavar is used as a finisher to harden things up in the end.

Walkway, do you really think aromasin should be taken that often? How long is its half life?

I didn’t see walkway’s reply when I typed “anyone?”

I am trying to stay away from 19 nor, Tren is not my thing, as its spanks cardio too much, I don’t think the SARMS could even counter tren’s debilitating effects on my cardio.

The masteron is there for its affinity to bind to SHBG and free up Testosterone. Also to combat the estrogenic sides of the Test. Of course I have aromasin on hand for that.

The anavar is used as a finisher to harden things up in the end.

Walkway, do you really think aromasin should be taken that often? How long is its half life?

Maybe you could reach those goals without all the steroids. That’d be a lot more impressive.

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:
why not just keep it simple? i see a lot of things in there that you don’t need…

weeks 1-12
test E
tren E or deca

1-beginning of pct (consider tapering off during pct)
aromasin (has a really short half life, should be dosed 2x a day NOT eod…should be taken with food as well)

2-3 weeks after
nolva 40/40/20/20
clomid 100/100/50/50

eat well, sleep well, and lift…[/quote]

the half-life of aromasin is 27 hours…

[quote]MikeRich928 wrote:
Maybe you could reach those goals without all the steroids. That’d be a lot more impressive. [/quote]

Sure that would be a lot more impressive. Till this day I am staring at my vials without yet touching them. I have always been a natural lifter, it took me 5 years of trial and error to get to where I am today.

I am 220, 15% BF, bench 365, Squat 450, Deadlift 475 natural. Its not anything to brag about, but I did take pride in getting here without chemical assistance. But the truth is I have been stuck for the past year. I run an outdoor expedition business which requires me to take clients on extremely catabolic hikes for days on end, a lot of wilderness survival stuff which often means limited food rations. . Every time I break past a plateau at home training consistently for 3-4 months, improve a little, I go on an expedition, and bam lose 20 pounds and a shit load of strength. I love what I do, but I also love PL, its hard to choose between the 2 “sports” but that’s the way things are.

I am hopping on the steroid wagon after extensive research. I read for 2 years before even considering it. (Ok the anavar was from when I was 21 dumb and full of cum). Not trying to justify my use, as the road to AAS is always a personal decision after weighing up its risk and benefits. My decision is to get ON, but in the safest way possible.

[quote]silentrevolver wrote:
Been lurking on T nation for a good while, loving the articles!

Anyway way back I did an anavar only cycle which pushed me from 190 - 214 in 8 weeks.

I am now sitting at a slightly higher bf of 15%. I am currently doing Westside for fat bastards program, want to cut down to 200 12% bf by March before going on the cycle. I am going to be working on an Antarctica vessel for 2 months so injectable gear is out of the question until March. During which I’ll be cycling RS Transaderm and GW SARMS.

Now on to the March cycle:

Gear
1-10 weeks 400 mg Test E
1-10 weeks 400 mg Mast E
6-10 weeks 60 mg Anavar ED

on cycle support
1- 10 weeks 12.5 mg of aromasin Eod
1-10 weeks N2guard (NTBM)
6 - 17 weeks: HcGenerate (NTBM)
6-10 weeks; Liv 52

PCT
11 - 12 weeks: HCG 250iu daily
11-21 weeks: Forma stanzol ( 5 pumps day, 5 pumps night)
13 - 17 weeks: clomid 50/25/25/25
13- 21 weeks: unleashed (NBTM)
13- 21 weeks : Bridge (NBTM)
13 - 21 weeks : GW505156 (SARMS)

The goal of this cycle is really to get down to single digit BF and get my bench up from 315 - 365, squats from 450 - 525, deadlift from 470 - 550. This is really for preparing for summer since I have to be leading hikes with 30 kg rucksacks covering 8 hours of treacherous terrain for 14 days on 3 occasions. I want to stay lean and cardiovacularly fit, which is why I incorporated GW in the mix. Also do not wanna lose strength as I am planning to compete in a PL meet this coming Dec.

Please critique my cycle guys.
[/quote]

i think the cycle looks pretty solid, for the most part. i would make these tweaks, tho…

i’d run the anavar a week longer, to allow the test/mast to clear.

once you go into PCT, i’d increase aromasin to 25 mg/day (and adjust as needed). also, i’d use Nolva (tamoxifen) over Clomid, and ditch the HCG. generally, the NBTM stuff is a waste of money… i know Elite Fitness mods try to convince people that it will keep them from being suppressed on cycle, but it simply will not happen when supplementing with exogenous hormones.

here’s some info i did on PCT: http://tnation.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/sports_training_performance_bodybuilding_gear/thoughts_on_planning_pct

as far as the GW… i thought it sucked. granted, i was doing a MMA style workout, but it actually made my cardio worse. maybe it works for LSD vs HIIT, tho…

^also, GW is technically not a SARM (live Ostarione, LGD and S4)

[quote]cycobushmaster wrote:

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:
why not just keep it simple? i see a lot of things in there that you don’t need…

weeks 1-12
test E
tren E or deca

1-beginning of pct (consider tapering off during pct)
aromasin (has a really short half life, should be dosed 2x a day NOT eod…should be taken with food as well)

2-3 weeks after
nolva 40/40/20/20
clomid 100/100/50/50

eat well, sleep well, and lift…[/quote]

the half-life of aromasin is 27 hours…[/quote]

~9 hour terminal half life

maximal estrogen suppression at 12 hours, after which estrogen begins rising again… must be dosed 2x/day

[quote]cycobushmaster wrote:

as far as the GW… i thought it sucked. granted, i was doing a MMA style workout, but it actually made my cardio worse. maybe it works for LSD vs HIIT, tho…[/quote]

Interesting. GW is meant to shift the focus from burning glycogen to burning fat, so maybe its better for long distance running or rucksack marches that I do.

As for NTBM products, I do think they are semi effective. I have used HCGenerate on many occasions and it does seem to be a good natty test booster. Of course it is not going to prevent HPTA shutdown/suppression, but I am thinking running it later in the cycle will at least stimulate some natural test. Besides I already have these products, so why not give it a go?

Although I must say that Elite fitness does go out of its way to bash traditional PCT protocols. They vilify Nolvadex in particular, claiming that it would lead to muscle waste. I read some scientific studies that may support that, but I think its anecdotal and not to be completely trusted. I ran Nolva for my Anavar run 7 years ago and it worked fine.

Also why not run HCG? In all the literature I read it seems to be a good kick start to PCT as Hypogonadism will likely result from the cycle. It seems to stimulate LH and FSH production naturally, although I am cautious not to run for over 10 days as it seems to have diminished returns after that period.

Have you or anyone else ran it before with bad results?

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:

[quote]cycobushmaster wrote:

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:
why not just keep it simple? i see a lot of things in there that you don’t need…

weeks 1-12
test E
tren E or deca

1-beginning of pct (consider tapering off during pct)
aromasin (has a really short half life, should be dosed 2x a day NOT eod…should be taken with food as well)

2-3 weeks after
nolva 40/40/20/20
clomid 100/100/50/50

eat well, sleep well, and lift…[/quote]

the half-life of aromasin is 27 hours…[/quote]

~9 hour terminal half life

maximal estrogen suppression at 12 hours, after which estrogen begins rising again… must be dosed 2x/day
[/quote]

What are you basing this on?

I have never recommended Aromasin more frequently than EOD, and I have certainly never heard these claims here. It completely wipes out the E2, which doesn’t just grow back out of nowhere.

~9 hour terminal half life

maximal estrogen suppression at 12 hours, after which estrogen begins rising again… must be dosed 2x/day
[/quote]

i thought it bound to estrogen and destroyed it not just suppressed it?

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:

[quote]cycobushmaster wrote:

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:
why not just keep it simple? i see a lot of things in there that you don’t need…

weeks 1-12
test E
tren E or deca

1-beginning of pct (consider tapering off during pct)
aromasin (has a really short half life, should be dosed 2x a day NOT eod…should be taken with food as well)

2-3 weeks after
nolva 40/40/20/20
clomid 100/100/50/50

eat well, sleep well, and lift…[/quote]

the half-life of aromasin is 27 hours…[/quote]

~9 hour terminal half life

maximal estrogen suppression at 12 hours, after which estrogen begins rising again… must be dosed 2x/day
[/quote]

according to Pfizer, we’re both wrong, and the half-life is 24 hours.

http://labeling.pfizer.com/ShowLabeling.aspx?id=523

[quote]Paul33 wrote:

~9 hour terminal half life

maximal estrogen suppression at 12 hours, after which estrogen begins rising again… must be dosed 2x/day
[/quote]

i thought it bound to estrogen and destroyed it not just suppressed it?[/quote]

it does. as a suicidal AI, it binds irreversibly to estrogen. this means that i removes estrogen without it bouncing back, and before estrogen can rise later, the body still needs to produce the aromatase enzyme to bind to testosterone…

[quote]silentrevolver wrote:

[quote]cycobushmaster wrote:

as far as the GW… i thought it sucked. granted, i was doing a MMA style workout, but it actually made my cardio worse. maybe it works for LSD vs HIIT, tho…[/quote]

Interesting. GW is meant to shift the focus from burning glycogen to burning fat, so maybe its better for long distance running or rucksack marches that I do.

As for NTBM products, I do think they are semi effective. I have used HCGenerate on many occasions and it does seem to be a good natty test booster. Of course it is not going to prevent HPTA shutdown/suppression, but I am thinking running it later in the cycle will at least stimulate some natural test. Besides I already have these products, so why not give it a go?

Although I must say that Elite fitness does go out of its way to bash traditional PCT protocols. They vilify Nolvadex in particular, claiming that it would lead to muscle waste. I read some scientific studies that may support that, but I think its anecdotal and not to be completely trusted. I ran Nolva for my Anavar run 7 years ago and it worked fine.

Also why not run HCG? In all the literature I read it seems to be a good kick start to PCT as Hypogonadism will likely result from the cycle. It seems to stimulate LH and FSH production naturally, although I am cautious not to run for over 10 days as it seems to have diminished returns after that period.

Have you or anyone else ran it before with bad results?[/quote]

yeah, the GW might work great for rucking… i was amazed how bad it was for anaerobic stuff, though. as long as you’re aware of it, you should be good…

i generally suggest Nolva for PCT because it won’t decrease sensitivity to LHRH like Clomid can.

as far as HCG… well, i just think it’s a flawed logic to use it. the presumption is that by taking HCG (which mimics LH) then the testes will be more sensitive to LH later on… but my issue with it, is the fact that the HPTA needs to be recovered before the testes even receive the signal to produce testosterone… for this, i believe Aromasin and Nolvadex are far more effective at correcting the deficiency. also, they’ve both been shown to increase FSH, LH and testosterone levels…

just my .02.

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:

What are you basing this on?

I have never recommended Aromasin more frequently than EOD, and I have certainly never heard these claims here. It completely wipes out the E2, which doesn’t just grow back out of nowhere.[/quote]

you should certainly recommend aromasin more frequently than EOD. It does not “completely wipe out the E2”.

Suppression of estrogen, via estrogen receptor or aromatase blockade, is being investigated in the treatment of different conditions. Exemestane (Aromasin) is a potent and selective irreversible aromatase inhibitor. To characterize its suppression of estrogen and its pharmacokinetic (PK) properties in males, healthy eugonadal subjects (14â??26 yr of age) were recruited. In a cross-over study, 12 were randomly assigned to 25 and 50 mg exemestane daily, orally, for 10 d with a 14-d washout period. Blood was withdrawn before and 24 h after the last dose of each treatment period. A PK study was performed (n = 10) using a 25-mg dose. Exemestane suppressed plasma estradiol comparably with either dose [25 mg, 38% (P â?¤ 0.002); 50 mg, 32% (P â?¤ 0.008)], with a reciprocal increase in testosterone concentrations (60% and 56%; P â?¤ 0.003 for both). Plasma lipids and IGF-I concentrations were unaffected by treatment. The PK properties of the 25-mg dose showed the highest exemestane concentrations 1 h after administration, indicating rapid absorption. The terminal half-life was 8.9 h. Maximal estradiol suppression of 62 �± 14% was observed at 12 h. The drug was well tolerated. In conclusion, exemestane is a potent aromatase inhibitor in men and an alternative to the choice of available inhibitors. Long-term efficacy and safety will need further study.

[quote]cycobushmaster wrote:

according to Pfizer, we’re both wrong, and the half-life is 24 hours.

http://labeling.pfizer.com/ShowLabeling.aspx?id=523[/quote]

that is the study conducted on postmenopausal women with breast cancer.

here is the full study conducted on men if you would like to read it

http://press.endocrine.org/doi/full/10.1210/jc.2003-031279

[quote]cycobushmaster wrote:

[quote]Paul33 wrote:
i thought it bound to estrogen and destroyed it not just suppressed it?[/quote]

it does. as a suicidal AI, it binds irreversibly to estrogen. this means that i removes estrogen without it bouncing back, and before estrogen can rise later, the body still needs to produce the aromatase enzyme to bind to testosterone…[/quote]

it binds irreversibly to aromatase, not estrogen. However, since the male body is constantly producing more aromatase, this is really a moot point.

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:

What are you basing this on?

I have never recommended Aromasin more frequently than EOD, and I have certainly never heard these claims here. It completely wipes out the E2, which doesn’t just grow back out of nowhere.[/quote]

you should certainly recommend aromasin more frequently than EOD. It does not “completely wipe out the E2”.

Suppression of estrogen, via estrogen receptor or aromatase blockade, is being investigated in the treatment of different conditions. Exemestane (Aromasin) is a potent and selective irreversible aromatase inhibitor. To characterize its suppression of estrogen and its pharmacokinetic (PK) properties in males, healthy eugonadal subjects (14�?�¢??26 yr of age) were recruited. In a cross-over study, 12 were randomly assigned to 25 and 50 mg exemestane daily, orally, for 10 d with a 14-d washout period. Blood was withdrawn before and 24 h after the last dose of each treatment period. A PK study was performed (n = 10) using a 25-mg dose. Exemestane suppressed plasma estradiol comparably with either dose [25 mg, 38% (P �?�¢?�?�¤ 0.002); 50 mg, 32% (P �?�¢?�?�¤ 0.008)], with a reciprocal increase in testosterone concentrations (60% and 56%; P �?�¢?�?�¤ 0.003 for both). Plasma lipids and IGF-I concentrations were unaffected by treatment. The PK properties of the 25-mg dose showed the highest exemestane concentrations 1 h after administration, indicating rapid absorption. The terminal half-life was 8.9 h. Maximal estradiol suppression of 62 �??�?�± 14% was observed at 12 h. The drug was well tolerated. In conclusion, exemestane is a potent aromatase inhibitor in men and an alternative to the choice of available inhibitors. Long-term efficacy and safety will need further study.

[quote]cycobushmaster wrote:

according to Pfizer, we’re both wrong, and the half-life is 24 hours.

http://labeling.pfizer.com/ShowLabeling.aspx?id=523[/quote]

that is the study conducted on postmenopausal women with breast cancer.

here is the full study conducted on men if you would like to read it

http://press.endocrine.org/doi/full/10.1210/jc.2003-031279

[quote]cycobushmaster wrote:

[quote]Paul33 wrote:
i thought it bound to estrogen and destroyed it not just suppressed it?[/quote]

it does. as a suicidal AI, it binds irreversibly to estrogen. this means that i removes estrogen without it bouncing back, and before estrogen can rise later, the body still needs to produce the aromatase enzyme to bind to testosterone…[/quote]

it binds irreversibly to aromatase, not estrogen. However, since the male body is constantly producing more aromatase, this is really a moot point. [/quote]

thanks for posting that…

i have to point out this from that study, as well: “Maximal suppression of estradiol (62 Ã?± 14%) was observed 12 h after a single 25-mg dose of exemestane. Estradiol remained suppressed by 58 Ã?± 21% at 24 h and returned to baseline 3-6 d after treatment.”

^based off that, i still don’t see how multiple doses are required.