New World Order

[quote]Otep wrote:
Cowboy_69 wrote:
Yikes…are you ever missing the point. I agree with you that the evangelical motivations behind the video are…not something I am inclined to support in any way.

Having said that, the statistics are accurate.

THAT does not bother you?

Let me ask you two questions: a.) do you actually reside in Hong Kong? b.) have you traveled European cities, and if so, which ones?

I am an American exchange student currently residing in HK.

Haven’t been to Europe. At all. Not sure if the makers of the video have either.
[/quote]

But I have. And they are right-on statistics-wise.

I also have family members who are radically left-wing yet have experienced some not-so-interesting situations with regards to the growing arab (and often very hostile) presence (edit: in Europe)

I ask you again: the statistics don`t bother you?

The only thing Religion has done for the world is FUCK IT UP!

There are way to many God’s out there. It’s time for them to fight it out and leave us the FUCK ALONE!

[quote]Cowboy_69 wrote:
But I have. And they are right-on statistics-wise.

I also have family members who are radically left-wing yet have experienced some not-so-interesting situations with regards to the growing arab (and often very hostile) presence (edit: in Europe)

I ask you again: the statistics don`t bother you? [/quote]

Short answer: No, the statistics don’t bother me.

Long answer: I’ll admit that the islamization of Europe is becoming a problem. There’s growing nativist and anti-islamic sentiment growing and it’s being thrown in the direction of muslim immigrants. Some of it is justified. Islamic terrorist organizations kill thousands of people around the globe. Fuck, they killed Van Gogh for making movies. These are not acts which should be tolerated.

But a demographic problem? I think the main concern implied in the video was that as soon as a nation has a strong minority (30% or more) Muslim, it will turn into a Muslim Theocracy. An ‘Islamic Republic’, I believe was the statement that was made. The example I use is Iran, because since the Cultural Revolution, it’s been a… Muslim Theocracy.

This ignores other majority Muslim nations (and nations where Muslims are a strong minority) that are not at all like Iran. Turkey is one. Indonesia is another. Malaysia and Singapore also come to mind.

I’ll admit there’s a wealth of difference between the Islam practiced in SE Asia and that practiced by the immigrants from the Middle East and South Asia that are arriving in the 'burbs of Paris, London, and Copenhagen. I don’t think the makers of the video will admit that though, if they’re aware of it.

IF (and that’s probably a pretty big if) European leaders decided Muslim immigration was a bad thing, they could do a couple things. 1) cut off immigrants from Muslim countries. Just stop letting them across the border.

  1. End social benefits for households with more than three kids. This would probably help quell that average of eight kids in a household statistic the video quips for Muslims in… Brussels was it? I forget.

One thing that probably WOULDN’T work is to try to convert them all to Christianity.

Look, I’m all for justice being applied to wrong-doers, regardless of race, religion, or economic status. I just don’t believe in castigating an entire religion, or the people that follow that religion, because they have a lot of kids.

Hopefully that addresses your question. Now, what’s the specific ‘culture’ that will get destroyed by Muslim immigration?

[quote]Otep wrote:

Long answer: I’ll admit that the islamization of Europe is becoming a problem.
There’s growing nativist and anti-islamic sentiment growing and it’s being thrown in the direction of muslim immigrants.

[/quote]

Yes. I wonder why? Anti-anything sentiments do not arise out of nothingness, Otep.

As I specified in an above post, hardcore left-wing European residents are running into major problems with Muslim immigrants. What make you of that?

It is good that you recognize this.

Again, as I mentioned above, you are missing the point. I too disagree with the religion-vs-religion stance the video tries to push.

It is a question, IMO, of whether you want a religion and way-of-thinking which is predominantly bent on conquest, non-accord with domestic ways of living and generally vehemently disinterested in peaceful co-habitation or (dare I say) reasonable assimilation becoming the predominant population within your geographic boundaries.

[quote]
I’ll admit there’s a wealth of difference between the Islam practiced in SE Asia and that practiced by the immigrants from the Middle East and South Asia that are arriving in the 'burbs of Paris, London, and Copenhagen. [/quote]

Otep: I read your posts on these forums and though you may or may not be a fan of my ways around here, generally speaking you display solid logic and level-headedness in your posts. Let me assure you, having traveled and spent time in the above European cities and then some…it is getting ugly. Very ugly.

Entirely unliveable if you are not arab in many burbs. Personally, I see this as a problem. A big problem, that is getting worse not by the year but by the minute.

…and thus be labeled as no-good-very-bad right-wingers as you so clearly expressed in your initial post in this thread.

Let us not sink into hypocrisy so early in this discussion, Otep :wink:

See above.

Indeed, that goes without saying :smiley: As I have said more then once, let us not dwell on the religious stance of the video but rather on the demographic statistics and what they might entail for our culture in the not-so-distant future…and here I speak of North America. Europe is already suffering the consequences of, dare I say, passive Islamic conquest.

Oh, that is easy enough to state AND agree with. Again, it is IMO beside the larger issue at hand here. You are smart enough to know that as well as I :wink:

Yours and mine, my dear friend.

[quote]Cowboy_69 wrote:
dirtbag wrote:

I am sick of running around being afraid of offending people based on what I say cause I am white. Big fucking deal. I say we preserve our country and culture. Not based on religion but based on what we as North Americans or Europeans believe it to be.

Fuckin A brother. Fuckin A. Couldn`t agree more with ya.

Anyone else agree, disagree or have an opinion to state?[/quote]

There is a fine line between respectfully disagreeing with someone and being an asshole, going up in arms in your bravado of defending your “religion” when no one is threatening it and blaming everyone else is stupid. You are not offending anyone, but when you act like thats holding you back and start putting others down, that’s when you become an asshole.

What is wrong with one religion having more followers then the other? Like Otep mentioned having a fit for who has the more followers is retarded.

Cowboy_69 you seemed like a nice person, but when you said “I ask you again: the statistics don`t bother you?” You just proved to me that you are the biggest asshole here. Why should the statistics bother anyone? What’s wrong with one culture growing more then the other one?

Here is a word for you; “ethnocentrism” look it up.

[quote]Hellfrost wrote:
Cowboy_69 wrote:
dirtbag wrote:

I am sick of running around being afraid of offending people based on what I say cause I am white. Big fucking deal. I say we preserve our country and culture. Not based on religion but based on what we as North Americans or Europeans believe it to be.

Fuckin A brother. Fuckin A. Couldn`t agree more with ya.

Anyone else agree, disagree or have an opinion to state?

There is a fine line between respectfully disagreeing with someone and being an asshole, going up in arms in your bravado of defending your “religion” when no one is threatening it and blaming everyone else is stupid. You are not offending anyone, but when you act like thats holding you back and start putting others down, that’s when you become an asshole.

What is wrong with one religion having more followers then the other? Like Otep mentioned having a fit for who has the more followers is retarded.

Cowboy_69 you seemed like a nice person, but when you said “I ask you again: the statistics don`t bother you?” You just proved to me that you are the biggest asshole here. Why should the statistics bother anyone? What’s wrong with one culture growing more then the other one?

Here is a word for you; “ethnocentrism” look it up.[/quote]

A.) I am not Christian. Nor do I follow any organized religion. Read my posts above. I am not in ANY way interested with the RELIGIOUS STANCE the video pushes. If anything, I view organized religion as a main perpretator of long-lasting world problems (and in particular Christianity/Islam/Judaism, all three of the same root); but that is discussion fit for another thread.

B.) Ethnocentrism is SPECIFICALLY the problem at hand here, Hellfrost. You say you are of Muslim descent but decided against following that line of thought. May I be so bold as to ask why? Because the Numero Uno problem facing European cities heavily populated with Muslim peoples is SPECIFICALLY their overbearing tendency to NOT want to mix with others, vehemently REJECT other cultures (domestic or otherwise) and ultimately prove to be unwilling to peacefully co-habit.

C.) You repeatedly referring to me as an asshole when I am encouraging an open debate is at once amusing and base.

[quote]Cowboy_69 wrote:
Hellfrost wrote:
Cowboy_69 wrote:
dirtbag wrote:

I am sick of running around being afraid of offending people based on what I say cause I am white. Big fucking deal. I say we preserve our country and culture. Not based on religion but based on what we as North Americans or Europeans believe it to be.

Fuckin A brother. Fuckin A. Couldn`t agree more with ya.

Anyone else agree, disagree or have an opinion to state?

There is a fine line between respectfully disagreeing with someone and being an asshole, going up in arms in your bravado of defending your “religion” when no one is threatening it and blaming everyone else is stupid. You are not offending anyone, but when you act like thats holding you back and start putting others down, that’s when you become an asshole.

What is wrong with one religion having more followers then the other? Like Otep mentioned having a fit for who has the more followers is retarded.

Cowboy_69 you seemed like a nice person, but when you said “I ask you again: the statistics don`t bother you?” You just proved to me that you are the biggest asshole here. Why should the statistics bother anyone? What’s wrong with one culture growing more then the other one?

Here is a word for you; “ethnocentrism” look it up.

A.) I am not Christian. Nor do I follow any organized religion. Read my posts above. I am not in ANY way interested with the RELIGIOUS STANCE the video pushes. If anything, I view organized religion as a main perpretator of long-lasting world problems (and in particular Christianity/Islam/Judaism, all three of the same root); but that is discussion fit for another thread.

B.) Ethnocentrism is SPECIFICALLY the problem at hand here, Hellfrost. You say you are of Muslim descent but decided against following that line of thought.

May I be so bold as to ask why? Because the Numero Uno problem facing European cities heavily populated with Muslim peoples is SPECIFICALLY their overbearing tendency to NOT want to mix with others, vehemently REJECT other cultures (domestic or otherwise) and ultimately prove to be unwilling to peacefully co-habit.

C.) You repeatedly referring to me as an asshole when I am encouraging an open debate is at once amusing and base.

[/quote]

i am interested in reading the response to this.

[quote]Standard Donkey wrote:
Cowboy_69 wrote:
Hellfrost wrote:
Cowboy_69 wrote:
dirtbag wrote:

I am sick of running around being afraid of offending people based on what I say cause I am white. Big fucking deal. I say we preserve our country and culture. Not based on religion but based on what we as North Americans or Europeans believe it to be.

Fuckin A brother. Fuckin A. Couldn`t agree more with ya.

Anyone else agree, disagree or have an opinion to state?

There is a fine line between respectfully disagreeing with someone and being an asshole, going up in arms in your bravado of defending your “religion” when no one is threatening it and blaming everyone else is stupid. You are not offending anyone, but when you act like thats holding you back and start putting others down, that’s when you become an asshole.

What is wrong with one religion having more followers then the other? Like Otep mentioned having a fit for who has the more followers is retarded.

Cowboy_69 you seemed like a nice person, but when you said “I ask you again: the statistics don`t bother you?” You just proved to me that you are the biggest asshole here. Why should the statistics bother anyone? What’s wrong with one culture growing more then the other one?

Here is a word for you; “ethnocentrism” look it up.

A.) I am not Christian. Nor do I follow any organized religion. Read my posts above. I am not in ANY way interested with the RELIGIOUS STANCE the video pushes. If anything, I view organized religion as a main perpretator of long-lasting world problems (and in particular Christianity/Islam/Judaism, all three of the same root); but that is discussion fit for another thread.

B.) Ethnocentrism is SPECIFICALLY the problem at hand here, Hellfrost. You say you are of Muslim descent but decided against following that line of thought. May I be so bold as to ask why? Because the Numero Uno problem facing European cities heavily populated with Muslim peoples is SPECIFICALLY their overbearing tendency to NOT want to mix with others, vehemently REJECT other cultures (domestic or otherwise) and ultimately prove to be unwilling to peacefully co-habit.

C.) You repeatedly referring to me as an asshole when I am encouraging an open debate is at once amusing and base.

i am interested in reading the response to this.[/quote]

X2

[quote]Hellfrost wrote:
Cowboy_69 wrote:
dirtbag wrote:

I am sick of running around being afraid of offending people based on what I say cause I am white. Big fucking deal. I say we preserve our country and culture. Not based on religion but based on what we as North Americans or Europeans believe it to be.

Fuckin A brother. Fuckin A. Couldn`t agree more with ya.

Anyone else agree, disagree or have an opinion to state?

There is a fine line between respectfully disagreeing with someone and being an asshole, going up in arms in your bravado of defending your “religion” when no one is threatening it and blaming everyone else is stupid. You are not offending anyone, but when you act like thats holding you back and start putting others down, that’s when you become an asshole.

What is wrong with one religion having more followers then the other? Like Otep mentioned having a fit for who has the more followers is retarded.

Cowboy_69 you seemed like a nice person, but when you said “I ask you again: the statistics don`t bother you?” You just proved to me that you are the biggest asshole here. Why should the statistics bother anyone? What’s wrong with one culture growing more then the other one?

Here is a word for you; “ethnocentrism” look it up.[/quote]

Hey bud I think you can state your view about stuff without insulting people to make your point. Soon as you do that it makes what you say useless.

Its all about the values we grew up with being swept away in favor ultra conservative Islam. I don’t want my kids or grand kids living in that society. Plan and simple.

[quote]Cowboy_69 wrote:
Hellfrost wrote:
Cowboy_69 wrote:
dirtbag wrote:

I am sick of running around being afraid of offending people based on what I say cause I am white. Big fucking deal. I say we preserve our country and culture. Not based on religion but based on what we as North Americans or Europeans believe it to be.

Fuckin A brother. Fuckin A. Couldn`t agree more with ya.

Anyone else agree, disagree or have an opinion to state?

There is a fine line between respectfully disagreeing with someone and being an asshole, going up in arms in your bravado of defending your “religion” when no one is threatening it and blaming everyone else is stupid. You are not offending anyone, but when you act like thats holding you back and start putting others down, that’s when you become an asshole.

What is wrong with one religion having more followers then the other? Like Otep mentioned having a fit for who has the more followers is retarded.

Cowboy_69 you seemed like a nice person, but when you said “I ask you again: the statistics don`t bother you?” You just proved to me that you are the biggest asshole here. Why should the statistics bother anyone? What’s wrong with one culture growing more then the other one?

Here is a word for you; “ethnocentrism” look it up.

A.) I am not Christian. Nor do I follow any organized religion. Read my posts above. I am not in ANY way interested with the RELIGIOUS STANCE the video pushes. If anything, I view organized religion as a main perpretator of long-lasting world problems (and in particular Christianity/Islam/Judaism, all three of the same root); but that is discussion fit for another thread.

B.) Ethnocentrism is SPECIFICALLY the problem at hand here, Hellfrost. You say you are of Muslim descent but decided against following that line of thought. May I be so bold as to ask why? Because the Numero Uno problem facing European cities heavily populated with Muslim peoples is SPECIFICALLY their overbearing tendency to NOT want to mix with others, vehemently REJECT other cultures (domestic or otherwise) and ultimately prove to be unwilling to peacefully co-habit.

C.) You repeatedly referring to me as an asshole when I am encouraging an open debate is at once amusing and base.

[/quote]

A) Agreed.

B) I am Albanian; Albania was invaded and conquered by the Ottoman empire in the 14th century, thus bringing in their religion and culture. Yup, the entire country is Muslim, plain and simple. However, we “Chose” not to practice the religion, sure it was forced on us, but no one really cares right now. The majority of Albanians today are either atheists or agnostics. According to an official US Government Report: “No reliable data were available on active participation in formal religious services, but estimates ranged from 25 to 40 percent.,” leaving 60 to 75 percent of the population non-religious (or, at least, not practicing a religion in public).

We have no problem co-existing with anyone. Sure there are some family traditions frowning upon certain mixes, but which grandparents over 80+ years old approve of certain mixes in any family? I have lived in many places in Europe, I have never encountered the type of behavior that you are suggesting related to the religion the person believed in.

C) Correction, I only called you an asshole once, I called the other guy an asshole once as well, even share I was hoping.

Dirtbag, you did not grow up with the same values that your father did, and neither did your father grew up with the values your grandparents did. Things change, there is no way around it, but thinking that everything will change with a blink of an eye then you are mistaken. Trust me, the last thing that would happen would be the destruction of the American culture because of a few immigrants.

Also you must forgive my lack of better curse words, English being my third language does not make me very creative. =]

Before the religious war starts, I think the history channel should make a Christian vs. Muslim Deadliest Warrior episode. So people know the outcome of the war before it happens. Kinda like TC’s article Single Combat Warrior ( All Articles - T NATION ). Cause if history has taught us anything, there will probably be a war.

[quote]streamline wrote:
The only thing Religion has done for the world is FUCK IT UP!

There are way to many God’s out there. It’s time for them to fight it out and leave us the FUCK ALONE![/quote]

Well…Muslims are normally associated with the stereotype that they carry AK-47s, are very strict with their woman, blow themselves up and shout “ALLAH AKBAR”, “ALLAH AKBAR”, all the time. Which is partly true. These are known as extremist Muslims around here and are hated.

Then there are the non-extremist Muslims. The ones that are peaceful, are respectful to others, have strong morals but are also tolerant of others. They also don’t shout “ALLAH AKBAR” all the fucking time. Which is cool. These are good people in our book.

Having said that Christians (I consider myself as a Christian…sort of), aren’t that much better, in fact we tend to disrespect our religions-true Christians don’t.

I hope the world WON’T turn into the extremist Muslim type, or else the whole fucking world will end up blown up. On the other hand if the world becomes predominantly Muslims (the peaceful not so radical type) I’ll be more then happy. Most of these people are really nice people. I know a few personally.

This thread is SO getting moved to PWI.

This is a question for you Cowboy. Give me specific examples of the way you expect European ‘culture’ to be changed by Muslim immigration and high birth rates. The reason I ask this is because the word ‘culture’ is getting thrown around a lot, and I want to make sure we’re all on the same page.

Are you saying that after a certain point, they’ll mandate that everyone become Muslim? Will there be more Halal restaurants? Will condoms stop being sold at corner stores due to religious influence? Will all women be required to wear Burkas? Will people be required to speak Arabic as the only language legally allowed to be spoken in the country? This is by and large the crux of the discussion here.

Second- Your response to my argument that Europe could close it’s borders was ‘[quote]…and thus be labeled as no-good-very-bad right-wingers as you so clearly expressed in your initial post in this thread. [/quote]’ Leave it to the Europeans to cry over something rather than do something about it because people won’t like them.

and I didn’t use ‘no-good-very-bad’ to disparage the identity of who I thought produced the video. I was much more specific than that. And as has been pointed out in this thread, it’s not disparagement if it’s accurate.

I also noticed you didn’t respond to the idea of limiting social services.

Last question for you cowboy- what would you have done to European immigration to deal with your demographic time-bomb?

NWO, baby!

Wait! What were we talking about?