T Nation

New to TRT. Test, Anti-Inflam/GH Peptides

EDIT I copied and pasted this question on another forum asking for advice from different people.

T Nation was actually the first website that got me to try body building and weightloss when I was in my teens (early 30s now) with the help of Thibaudeau and Chris Shugart. However I stopped lifting weights and weight loss quite a long time ago due to medical issues (some related to hormonal issues and others neurological)**

What I am about to post is a direct copy from another forum I got great advice from but I felt I would come back to the original forum that inspired me all those years ago and see what has changed in TRT Therapy, anti inflammation peptides and MOST IMPORTANTLY GROWTH HORMONE PEPTIDES, WHICH I NEED SERIOUS ADVICE ON AND AM ONLY GETTING MINIMAL ADVICE REGARDING THEM

Anyways I apologize for the caps lock and asterisks. Those are where I feel most attention needs to be applied in my case.

Anyways, here is my post…

First let me say i am totally ignorant to testosterone, peptides, and steroids in general. So i am asking here at the advice of pms i received after posting on both the TRT and Peptide subreddits because people said you guys would be more knowledgeable. (T Nation, and other body building forums)

I also copy/posted this from reddit to get more advice. I feel like i am being pulled in different directions from people who know the science but arnt my doctors

My research doctor said he hopes to bring my testosterone which is around the 100s to at the very least 700+ on a regular basis. (not sure what he wants my free value to be, but whatever coorelates with that).

Just in case its not elsewhere in this thread i am 5 foot 9, early 30s, and 302 pounds.

I also have high estradiol which is about 66, (quest range is normal below 39) so we are concerned about that. We talked about being put on an Aromitase inhinbitor but I have read bad things online and I’m not sure if I should do it? But obviously something is going on with that high of estradiol. I have had 3 MRIs over last few years and Cat scans and blood work checking pituatary gland and it is normal.

I also have low Vitamin d,25 at 16 (30-100 range), DESPITE, being on prescription strength supplements prescribed for a month. I am scribed 50,000 IU. But for some reason after a month my vitamin D didn’t increase so my doctor is increasing the script dosage. I was on 10,000 iu OTC daily for a year which resulted in the most recent 16 value.

My liver enzyme values AST and ALT are normal despite being fatty liver in the past. Through diet and excercise those level are expected to lower.

Here are some of my other labs that are concerning as to why GH peptides and anti-inflammatory peptides are recommended for me.

FIRST, I would be given glutathione and anti-inflammatory peptides after my first 3 months of testosterone to make sure my cholesterol and triglycerides are reduced to more normal levels and measure the lost of weight. he doesn’t want to do the growth hormone peptides if this doesn’t happen.*

Bloodwork

Cholesterol total-206

HDL-31

Triglycerides-261 (Some of the peptides specifically target triglycerides and mine seem to be extremely high. What can I do diet wise to reduce triglycerides in a fast and thorough way that is sustainable and keep it off?

LDL-135

CHOL/HDLC RATIO-6.6

NON HDL CHOLESTEROL-175

LDL PARTICLE NUMBER-1732 (HIGH RISK>1409)

LDL SMALL-507 (HIGH >219) LDL MEDIUM-459 (HIGH >301) HDL LARGE-4168 (HIGH < 5353)

LDL PATTERN-B (RISK HIGH =B) LDL PEAK SIZE-213.3 (HIGH <217.4)

APOLOPOPROTEIN B-120 (<90)

LIPOPROTEIN(a)-13 (good range, <75)

HS CRP Cardio IQ- 5.8 (optimal <1)

LP PLA2 ACITIVITY-120 (good range, <123)

The doctors at John’s hopkins don’t know right now why I am unable to build muscle mass or lose weight. I was put on a number of extreme dietary changes. First and foremost my weight loss is obviously most important since i am over 300 pounds at 5 foot 9. They started with 1000 calories a day on a intermittent fasting of 8 hours eating and 16 hours fasting for 3 months. I had some results in the loss of 5 - 10 pounds but I should lose far more than that.

They will be doing a full genetic workup to determine and rule out and genetic problems and pituatary gland issues, that may not have been found in MRIs, CAT or blood work, that prevent me from losing weight. but these results wont be back for some time., which is why i am being treated with peptides now.

The rational regarding the growth hormone peptides is to prevent burning muscle that I do have and so I can increase calories little by little and increase weight lifting so I can create muscle to burn fat. A sort of “aid” if you will.

I am currently being treated with the following…

  1. i just got my HCG injection that calls for… OLY HCG 10,000 IU PWVL VIAL, MIX WITH 5ML DILUENT, INJECT 0.25CC SUBCUTANEOUDLY 3 TIMES PER WEEK.

MY MAIN ISSUE IS IF THIS IS SAFE AND BENEFICIAL IN SOME WAY REGARDLESS OF PRICE BECAUSE I SAVED UP FOR IT. IT IS EXPENSIVE, HOWEVER, BUT I AM WILLING TO GO THROUGH HOPKINS RESEARCH HOSPITAL TO HELP UNDERSTAND AND TREAT MY INABILITY TO LOSE WEIGHT, AS NOT GAIN MUSCLE FROM HEAVY WEIGHT TRAINING

2.Along with this i will be taking 80mg twice weekly of testosterone (received 160mg two days ago and received an immediate mood boost).

As well as the GLUTATHIONE at some point here I believe.

Now the next step would be to be put on Anti Inflammatory Peptides -a period of 2 weeks or 4 weeks, There are 2 daily injections and a pill you take daily Thymosin Alpha 1, Thymosin Beta 4, and BPC 157.

  1. The last step would be growth hormone peptides
    CJC 1295 is an injection done 3 times a day, 6 days a week. Tesamorelin is a 1 time daily injection 6 days a week.

My doctors want me to be on these peptides first before i try the growth hormone and the Tesamorelin.

So obviously i am new and need guidance. Sorry for long post. But i need guidance and help from others who have been through this

One of my other main issues is that the doctor wants to put me on an AI, arimidex first with testosterone due to high estrogen, then anti inflammatory peptides first, then growth hormone peptides and I believe I put those specific ones in my post. I have been asking around and I am getting two very different opinions, both from doctors before this johns hopkins doc decided to help me and regular body builder/weight loss specialists.

However, several doctors (and bodybuilders/weight loss specialists not associated with the hospital) at are giving me different opinions about Arimidex.

My main doctor wants me on it because of my high estrogen level. My endocrinologist (not associated with johns hopkins) doesnt want me on it because she doesn’t want to mess with my hormones in my early 30s. In other words shes more conservative in that regard.

Some of the non doctors who are helping me lose weight also dont want me to be on arimidex. I looked online and it seems like aromitase inhibitors are a hotly debated topic and I have no idea what to do.

I suppose ill follow my main doctor’s advice and take the arimidex due to my high estrogen, but i just dont understand why people and my endocringologist is so against me from lowering my estrogen if it is high?

Lastly, are there any other peptides (growth hormone once my testosterone is “normal range” or anti inflammatory peptides before being put on GH peptides).

Thanks so much for reading! And thanks for being so kind and accepting me to this community. Have a great day!

I apologize for such a long post but I wanted to be as thorough as possible.

If there are any other specifics needed I wish ask my doctor and provide it.

A TRT doctor will be your best bet. Albeit, you will get a cookie cutter protocol but at least you will be under the care of a doctor who wont be afraid to get you back to healthy T levels. As for E, I wouldnt worry about it, as long your T gets into a good place, E shouldnt skyrocket. But you have to exercise in order to get a balance. Food intake should get cleaned up. TRT is only a piece of the puzzle.

The extra pounds are likely why estradiol is high, losing the extra weight will more than likely decrease the estradiol substantially. Those with a lot of extra weight usually have high amounts of aromatase which is one place estradiol comes from.

This is good because peptides stimulate your natural growth hormone production.

I hate to break it to you but your hormones are already messed up → Total T @ 100 ng/dL (Free T?). It will be difficult to lose weight at these Total T levels, healthy testosterone levels are needed to lose weight.

There is nothing wrong with trying though and in fact believe its a good idea. There’s nothing worse than second guessing yourself years later whether or not you had a chance to correct things naturally.

If you can’t correct things naturally, you would need TRT otherwise your health is at risk.

Listen to them because low estradiol will increase belly fat, higher levels will decrease visceral body fat. You only need higher testosterone to be whole again.

Another thing, sick care doctors, endocrinologist are the worst place to seek TRT including those at prestigious hospitals. I find these places to be the most clueless and no better than an average doctor with regards to sex hormones therapies.

The problem is sex hormones aren’t taught in traditional medical schools and residency, so most doctors without going back to school will struggle with TRT.

Thanks for the post! Im sorry I didnt make it clear but this doctor at johns hopkins is a TRT doctor. Apparently the research hospital is doing something new? In regards to TRT? I am by far the youngest patient from what I have seen and my first injection was last week and they will teach me tomorrow if the medication comes in.

I told this to my gym friends and they never heard of such a thing, they assumed I was going to a TRT clinic.

He is the only doctor since the past decade who was at least aggressive enough to do T injections and treat the T directly.

Also thanks for reiterating the food and excercise. The food he mentioned they want to try a 8, 16 intermittent fast because my weight loss is paramount first. Then they want to work on my muscle via a caloric increase.

Do you have any advice in regards to excercise while in this first part of my TRT, which is the weight loss phase besides cardio? The only thing they didnt discuss with me yet is lifting weights and Im not sure what to do while on TRT and other medication while in a caloric deficit.

Thanks for your response, Middleages!

Thanks for the response System. As with Middleages, I apologize if I wasnt clear. I have already started treatment, this is my second week.

Yes, I am worried about arimidex, as I received the opinion from you and the gym goers.

But the retort from my doctor (who I have to reiterate is a medical doctor and his team) say they are fighting "pure ignorance and misinformation being spread across gyms and “bro science” gym goers.

Now those are his and their words not mine lol. But I feel like I can’t just say "lets ignore a TRT doc with years of medical school under his belt with other docs at a world class research hospital.

BUT I also cant ignore the guys at the gym who obbiously have a good physique, other TRT docs on youtube, and people like you who obviously know what you are talking about haha.

So as you can see it is probably up to me to decide to take it or not. But im really worried I make the wrong decision. If I do it can the bad problems be reversed? Or if I dont do it, it comes down to just working harder on weight loss i suppose.

Thanks so much for your post! It has helped me a ton! Have a great day!

However, I would like to add to other people looking at this thread, most of my questions have to deal with the specific anti inflammatory peptides and growth hormone peptides I havent taken yet.

Are the ones being recommended good? Are there ones that are better I should ask about?

Anyways thanks again System! Have a good day!

In my non-professional opinion this is a metabolic disaster waiting to happen. I don’t believe even a 120 pound woman should be that low in calories let alone a 300+ man. You would have been better off slowly reducing calories, keeping the metabolism running as optimally as possible while in a deficit. Jumping straight to 1000 calories is just going to slow the metabolism and leave you no where to go in regards to weight loss. Your now stuck having to slowly go back up in calories just to get the metabolism running more efficiently to stop rebounding greatly in weight. Again this just my non-professional opinion and hope I am wrong in it. Maybe with the meds added in, I am.

Save your money. They charge a fortune for these and unless you’re pretty deficient they won’t make much difference from a cost perspective. The only replacement for growth hormone is growth hormone. The other peptides that are out there can provide marginal improvement but it’s a pale imitation.

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I’ve found though blood work that they don’t work for everyone either. I basically got no results with the MK-677 (IGF-1 went down, but I am assuming that is just natural fluctuation).

I’ve said this a dozen times before, but I’ll say it again because it’s important: exercise is a terrible way to lose weight. Do it for your overall health, sure, but don’t count it as part of your overall weight loss plan. Your weight is 100% tied to diet. Period. Until you get that dialed in properly you will never, ever, ever, not ever even for a moment be able to out-exercise a bad diet.

Yes, thanks for the advice. I appreciate it. They are working with me on my new caloric deficit “lifestyle”.

However I dont know how true this is, maybe you can explain this, they are telling me to “lift heavy” because this supposedly “promotes testosterone production”. Sort of like approaching my problem of low testosterone from losing weight via food changes, via peptides, via lowering estrogen, via test injections, and now via excercise focusing on weight training.

Thats the main reason why I was wondering if there was anything specific that could be done. I was told doing compound excercises, for example, but thought I would ask you guys since yall would most likely know better.

Thanks for the reply and help. I really appreciate it. Have a great day!

Thanks for this advice. I have been told this before but I am also being told the opposite from other TRT clients.

The rationale that they use is that every little bit helps. Personally i can afford it, BUT i dont want to do something that would negatively affect my goals in relation to TRT and weight loss.

So if the growth hormone peptides aren’t all that great, I wont do it.

Its just hard for me to make a decision because some people say yes and some people say its not worth it.

Thanks again for your advice. I really appreciate it.

They work for some, but not for others. In the best case though they are very expensive and produce ok results.

It does help, especially in people who are low. In you case it matters naught because you’re on exogenous testosterone and thus your natural production is gone.

Look, I think everyone should lift weights. Don’t ever get the impression that lifting heavy and getting stronger is a bad thing. Ditto doing cardio. But those are things that are secondary right now to the diet and lifestyle changes that you’re also undergoing. The only eating 1,000 calories things is totally nuts to me, I have no idea what magic trick they’re going to try and use to stave off metabolic adaptation, but you’re going to spend the next five years crashing and reverse dieting like a maniac until you end up getting totally burned out. That’s a different problem for a different day, I suppose.

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I’ve used them. All they did was make my wallet lighter. I’d rather spend the money on actual GH and know that I’m getting results.

From my experience, if you have low IGF-1 Tesamorelin/Ipamorelin is great to get it up to the 300’s (I went from 134 to 330). I tried CJC/Ipa and it put IGF-1 at just 189, not worth it to me

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Strength training boosts your metabolism, so its good that you lift to help torch the fat even while you sleep. But dont do it in a caloric deficit like the one you have been thrown into. Taper down intake, and taper up your physical output.

Thanks for your great response. I really appreciate it.

I know nothing about scribing straight growth hormone, but even my very liberal doctor said he can’t script it.

Is there a way to get it properly from a doctor givein my labs or is it simply not possible getting it from a clinic and I have to get it via “other means”?

Like I said I know nothing so I appreciate your knowledge a lot!

Thanks for the help!

It’s pretty tough for a doctor to justify prescribing it these days. Some have figured out how to do so without any issue, but that’s not the norm. The vast majority of GH use is, um, “off book”.