T Nation

New to TRT, Current Protocol 175mg/wk. Still Having Symptoms

  • ABOUT ME… I’m 32 yrs young. I’m lean and in great shape. About 6 yrs ago I took the dive off the deep end and started to cycle gear. Mainly for cosmetic and performance purposes. I was into competitive powerlifting then and wanted to really get into the sport. I cycled with Test at higher amounts nothing over 500mg but stacked/paired it with some orals or maybe a little Tren for a bit. I did use and AI for pretty much the entire time I cycled with those higher doses up until the last year when I stopped the AI due to me reading up on how bad they truly are. I never went crazy like some guys do because in the back of my mind I was always worried about my health. My injection frequency using higher doses was usually twice a week or 3 times a week. So I did one powerlifting meet which I did very well in but just didn’t fully feel it. I mean it was cool and fun but got the feeling it wasn’t for me. It’s a tough sport and I really realized health is more important to me. I’ve been on here TNation for a couple years now reading and researching. I have been off an AI for probably over a year now. I’ve tried 3 different protocols with me still on my 3rd protocol as I write this post. Lab results posted and shown below.

  • DIET:

-7oz of chicken breast with 1cup of jasmine rice and half serving of almonds (with 1/4 teaspoon of iodized salt) x2 (Morning meal and lunch meal)

-1 serving of Oatmeal with 2 scoops of whey isolate protein powder with 1 serving of 85% dark chocolate. (Afternoon meal/ after work meal about an hour and a half before workout)

-2 Bananas 1 in the morning and 1 post workout

-7oz of chicken with Smoothie (2 cups of frozen blueberries, 112grams = half cup of steamed spinach and 4oz of non concentrated OJ)

Recently added 3 Brazil nuts (very high in selenium) spread out throughout the day to up my selenium and aid in thyroid.

  • CHEAT food is minimal. Here and there but not much. Maybe a few cookies or some chips or a single fast food/restaurant meal out a week. I try to watch how much fast food/junk food I eat. Dairy food makes me break out. Alcohol, well I love beer. I’m a big craft beer guy but I also don’t go overboard. A few every week at most.

  • CHOLESTEROL As you can see from my lab results Nov. 2020 and Jan. 2021 my cholesterol was jacked up a bit. It definitely runs in my family just so you guy know. That said, I WAS eating 6 whole jumbo eggs scrambled daily for years. I took them out while adding Krill Oil and my cholesterol is improving as you can see on my May 2021 lab results. I may also add citrus bergamot to aid in lowering cholesterol. I will do everything and anything before going on actually cholesterol medication.

  • SIDE NOTE I was also addicted to caffeine for the longest time. Usually it was the zero calorie/zero sugar Bang or Monster drinks. All throughout the 1st 2 sets of my lab results shown, my Nov. 2020 results and my Jan. 2021 results. I was using big amounts 600-900mg daily for a long time. Probably a couple year like that. Realized this was an unhealthy amount so I took corrective action. Slowly came down to 300mg a day then to 140-150mg a day to now none. I feel better on no caffeine. Occasionally I may sneak 1 or 2 energy drinks in a week but it’s rare now. Caffeine amplifies my anxiety. Caffeine can affect thyroid and adrenals right? Maybe why my thyroid was a bit elevated? During my 1st 2 sets of labs???

  • VITAMINS:

-Krill Oil - 3000mg a day. For my cholesterol

-B-Complex - first thing in the morning

-Vitamin K2 (MK4, MK7) for blood vessel/ heart health and anti-plaque build up.

-Vitamin D3 8000 IU’s daily - split up morning, afternoon and evening.

-Zinc - 50mg a day split into morning and afternoon.

-Vitamin C 500mg split up 3x a day for a total of 1500mg

-Magnesium Glycinate 400mg before bed.

  • NOTE: I am self prescribed as of right now.

  • LAB RESULTS:

-BLOOD TEST (Early Nov. 2020, started this protocol late August 2020)

50mg Test. E. EOD, 175mg/wk no AI with 10mg daily cialis. Blood test taken on trough day after 8wks. This was my 1st ever stretch not taking an AI for this long. I did pop 6.25mg of aromasin as I kinda freaked a bit thinking E2 was high. Stay on this protocol for one more week. During this week I read up on trying to get FT higher so then I made the switch to my next protocol…

-BLOOD TEST (Late Jan. 2021, started this protocol early/middle Nov. 2020)

60mg Test. E. EOD, 210mg/wk no AI with 10mg daily cialis. Blood test taken on trough day after 8wks. Never touched Aromasin even after seeing E2 a bit higher than last bloods, just went into my current protocol.

BLOOD PRESSURE: the night before my blood test
LEFT ARM only 133/87. Elevated maybe due to too high of dose or maybe because current life stressor. That night I remember being slightly stressed out.

BLOOD TEST (Mid May 2021, started this protocol late January 2021 and as of this post I’m still running this exact protocol)

BLOOD PRESSURE: on day of blood test in the morning.
RIGHT ARM 123/61
LEFT ARM 115/61

Currently I’m on 25mg Testosterone E.
daily, 175mg/wk, no AI and with 10mg of cialis daily.

  • SYMPTOMS:
    I’m at a loss for words here guys. I feel great. My workouts are awesome. I’m not as strong as I was obviously but still very strong and strength keeps improving little by little. I’m hitting the gym 4-5 times a week. Only thing I would like to add in would be some cardio. Anyway yeah with my diet I feel good and look better now on TRT doses than I did cycling higher doses. I think taking an AI back then also contributed to being/looking a bit more flats… keeping the E2 down. I sleep pretty good. Though some nights I feel I have a harder time falling asleep. I usually always wake up feeling pretty good. Not overly tired or sluggish. I aim for 6-8hours of sleep. My main problem/symptom though guys is my libido. Morning wood is minimal and weaker. I can get really hard (daily cialis helps for this) but it takes a bit of work sometimes and it seems to get softer easier. Just recently there has been one particular life stressor/ life event going on. I’m just not sure if it’s too high of a dose for me? I mean some days I feel I am on a small cycle. My SHBG is lower than it is higher so maybe I don’t need this much? Could that make my free E2 higher? I don’t want to blame E2 cause it’s not high in correlation with my FT and TT. Could my E2 come up higher??? I will note some days my joints pop and click but not in a painful way like low E2 usually does. I know fluid in your joint does slide over your tendons making a pop/click sound. Mmmm ??? I had my DHEA-S and Pregnenolone tested and they are pretty low. I’m thinking this may have something to do with low libido? So yeah I’m thinking lower my dose, increase my dose (probably not this one) or try out DHEA, Pregnenolone?

  • NOTE Also not sure why my AST was elevated on my May 2021 blood test. Could have been from a few extra beers I had the week prior due to life stress or maybe a little cold I was fighting off as I did feeling slightly off after my blood test.

Again this is my 1st year on “TRT” and I’m looking for help and guidance. Please and thank you guys. Also I wanting to start looking for a somewhat affordable TRT clinic to work with. If there is anything else I’m leaving out let me know?

@systemlord @dextermorgan @enackers I’m looking to you to chime in as I know you all have yrs of experience and I respect your opinions. Obviously there are others on here also that know this stuff so feel free to give me your suggestions and guidance. Thanks.

It’s on the low-ish side, but not really that bad. Mine is usually 22-25 and I do fine on 2x weekly dosing. If I take any oral AAS then it goes single digits and I need EOD or daily shots to manage. Anyway, your FT looks fine.

You’ve got some room to lower dose if you want, like 5-10mg a day maybe. PRL looks fine but could always try some B6 to lower that a bit for libido. And, a tiny amount of AI, like .125mg at a time, once or twice a week, just to see if you like lower e2 better. Some guys do

When my T was in excessive I had stiff joints that did sound like popping and clicking, lowering the dosage fixed the issue. Some guys do suffer from lower libido with higher hormone levels while having a better physique.

Low DHEA-S can decrease libido. DHEA-S can increase estrogen, so don’t be surprised if estrogen is higher on your next round of testing. If you do feel better after adding DHEA-S and libido is still a problem, then I would try lowering your T dosage.

Just go on statins. I’ve never understood why people are so reluctant to use them. They’re generally well tolerated and they make a world of difference.

Can use RYR extract if afraid of prescription grade statins, but there is no difference between RYR and lovastatin (monacolin K is chemically identical) though RYR is generally unregulated thus dose per batch may differ and the prospect of citrinin contamination is real.

I had great results just using Ezetimibe. Pretty benign med, no side effects that I’ve experienced, drastic improvement in lipids

Ezetimbe does lower cholesterol through inhibiting NPC1L1. Not the same class of drug as a statin (elicits lipid lowering effect through HMG-CoA reductase inhibition).

Both are effective, statins are usually more effective but not everyone needs a 40-50% drop in LDL. I’ve had my LDL test as low as 80mg/dl on low dose simvastatin. There may be risks associated with driving down total cholesterol/LDL that low, but ehhh

Honestly it takes time bro. Also E2 is what gives men libido. Check my profile history and find the post where i linked a study and wrote up the findings.

Joints clicking could be anything. dont jump to conclusions. You might be making changes to fix that issue. You simply needed to give it time instead.

You really don’t need to worry about your estrogen. You simply need to stop blaming it. Your body is not going to infinitely product E2, or dht. Eventually it maxes out in absorption. It’s not just for libido. You gotta remember how important this hormone is to your organs and overall health.

I am taking a good dose of T and i have zero issues. Yes the first few months i had swollen feet and etc, but that dissipated and ive never experienced another side effect since i started.The body adapted.

My free t is at least 25 and my E is probably 60 to 80 at all times. Many other men i know have the same numbers. My doctor and his patients all have similar numbers, meaning they have high E numbers. They are all doing great. The only change we suggest is to modify your dose as you have been. Dont worry about labs as much. Find a dose where you feel good, and then give it time. Libido is quick to improve, but it slowly and continually improves in quality across 1-2 years. The strength of an erection increased over a longer period of time.

Here is what i realized with my TRT after almost 3 years.

  1. Year 1 my libido was much better, but not perfect. Year 2 it got better, and the last few months its gotten so crazy i wake up daily with the most ridiculous desire to bone … Remeber to not be masturbating and let the body heal. if you are constantly watching porn and stroking it, you wouldn’t realize health … you have to let the body naturally heal and develop its natural desire. The strength will also become stronger the less sex you have. Healing is the word here for most men with sexual issues. I say this because so many guys say they have issues on trt, its not fixing their libdo or strength, yet they jerk off daily. counter intuitive

  2. For me: Erectile strength has increased since day 1 as well without any supplements. Just like the doctor said. now around 2+ years i get 90% rock hard versus the 70 when is started. im 42. I havent touched porn in years. No masturbating either. Well every once in a blue moon if my wife cannot due to those days of the month every woman experiences.

  3. It all takes time to achieve these results. You are on a good dose, and giving it 3-6 months isn’t enough to realize the real benefits of TRT. This takes years. On a stable dose.

Your TRT regimen seems to be working for you. Sounds like my experience. the slowest improvement was erectile strength and libido. Cholesterol and other markers improve slowly as well, but you can see the change happening quick.

I wouldn’t lower my dose if i were in your shoes. If anything i might increase a little. Lowering at this point would go backwards, since you seem to be doing 90% great, minus the sexual issues.

FYI I love viagra. It works way better than cialis for me. I take it a couple times a week to get sutpid rock hard. Fun times … love it. i stopped using cialis after realizing 100mg of viagra (generic) works way better for me.

Did you ever use both v and c together?

I take daily cialis and add Viagra when I know I will have sex just for the hard asf feeling.
But sometimes I think that when I use both the erection is not as good as v alone.

What do you think?

Edit. It could be that if I stick with cialis the 100 mg v may be comparable to 20 mg cialis. My mind tells me that 20 is too much so I don’t take that much. Maybe I should increase on the weekend.

Thanks for the labs and backstory, that lead to the issue, libido. Do you have inhouse pussy? (If gay, it still applies) how easy is it to get laid? When theres none, theres thirst. When theres plenty, it can get boring. My girl starves me every week with her once a week BS,but when we fuck she fucks. Im naturally high libido so I look up women on Reddit for inspiration. No pro porn for me. Even my so so neighbor with big tits, small waist, and big ass, gets in my head. Thats why Im ok with long distance relationships in which she has to drive to me once a week to bang or a live in situation in which I get starved for a week every week. I suppose its better than negative pussy, which is the case for far too many men. Drive and access are 2 different things, and they can both cloud the waters if you’re drowning or starving for it. I will suggest that you go to sleep thinking of pussy you want to bang and wake up thinking of other pussy you want to bang. I have been there. Like a dog chasing a car, the fun is over sooner than later after you catch it.
Regarding your protocol. Switch to Test C. Daily shots build up, and this may be the key to the hormone portion of your struggle. I switched to Subq for a week and I wasnt as horny, once I got back to shallow IM, the Test goggles slipped over my eyes. Ill bang a mediocre woman if she has something attractive. Libido is a curse whether you have it or you dont.

I have been doing the same here and there. Give it 2-3 days ans the force is strong. Holy shit I could eat her ass up. Like a damn monster it’s ridiculous how strong that urge can get when you keep it to woman and no extracurricular shit like porn.

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Thanks for the reply. Yeah one of the options I was thinking was lowering my dose to 20mg a day and ride that out for a good 8-10 weeks and see how I feel. So that would be 175mgs/wk down to 140mgs/ wk.

I always thought about switching back to twice a week and see how I do but never did as I know for the most part bloods are more stable on daily and mimics the body a bit more. When I cycled with higher amounts I always did 2x or 3x a week while running some aromasin.

Thanks for the reply. Mmmm Like I said to @swoops39 I was thinking of lowering down from 25mg a day to 20mg a day. Since my DHEA-S is pretty low I may just try DHEA 1st like you mentioned and if that doesn’t pan out for me then I’ll remove that and lower my dose then ride that out for 8-10wks and see how I feel.

If I choose to keep my dose the same for now (25mgs/day) and go with adding DHEA, how much a day should I start with 25mgs, 50mgs and at what time of the day is best to take it. Also, do you or anyone else have a good recommendation for a DHEA supplement by a reputable brand? There’s so many to choose from on Amazon…

Thanks for the reply man. I’ll look into this more if I can’t get my cholesterol to improve with diet and or pairing my Krill oil with some Citrus Bergamot. Heard lots of guys have success with those two OTC products while having a clean diet. Maybe I will need cholesterol meds because like I said higher/bad cholesterol does run in my family.

Appreciate your reply man. Yeah I feel like I’m close to finding “MY” dose/protocol. I still don’t wake up with morning wood. I see beautiful women and definitely think to myself, yeah they are hot AF and would love for them to sit on my face then bend over. Lol. Just minimal movement in my dick. I did watch porn for a while but gave that up months ago. Also I don’t masturbate much anymore. I’m motivated to workout and my strength is improving little by little week after week and I still get goosebumps to some of my favorite songs so I don’t think it’s a dopamine issue. When I do try and masturbate I can get it up and gets rock hard (daily cialis 10mg a day) but it does take some work to get it up. ??? So I’m thinking try DHEA to boost DHEA-S and E2 a bit more or I have to go the other way and lower my dose. I understand this can take some time. It’s just frustrating at times ya know.

Nope, no girl in my life right now. Was in a long relationship but it ended a few months ago. Going rouge for a while, while I figure out my TRT. I definitely just want my libido back. Bad.

Test C uh? My understanding Test E and Test C were so similar no? I already do shallow IM Delts and VG Glute.

Ok. So you see women and you want to bang. But you want your dick to tingle? You have it all mixed up. Libido is desire not a mechanical reaction to what you see on a minute by minute basis. Its too much to ask for from your body. We would all be walking around with hard ons and thats just not how our bodies work. You’re chasing nothing. Here I was thinking you had no desire. Libido is the desire to have sex. I bet if you got close to getting laid you would be just fine. You’re asking for something that is not natural or normal even for the high libido man. Time to rethink things my man.

I get what your saying bro, but I have a feeling my libido issue is hormonal. Maybe not though. Maybe your right. It’s just I’ve been on 25mg of Test E. daily IM shots since late January. Plenty of time for my hormones to stabilize. Did I go through my sweet spot possibly? Maybe… I do recall having better morning wood like 2-3 months ago. Going on 6months with this protocol/dose now. Like I said I feel good body wise and energy wise. Strength in the gym is insane. Sleep is pretty good. Could be better some nights but it’s good. Sometimes though throughout the day I do feel my heart racing. What’s with that? Anyone else get that? Could that be an indication my dose may be too high? When I blasted higher amounts of gear I didn’t have some of the strength I do now, which is cool but I think that could most definitely be because I was taking an AI and keeping E2 lower than it needed to be.

Regarding the “want my dick to tingle” I mean like I dont ever get random erections or quarter chubs like I used too. Lol. Could it be that a relationship breakup plays a factor into low libido/mood/desire? I’m sure it does a little bit. Like mess with your mindset with all that? It was a pretty major breakup.

3 things I am considering trying is the following:

  • Try DHEA since it was low. (Could I run small amount of pregnenolone as well since that was also low?)
  • lower does to 20mgs a day (ride that out for about 10weeks reason being I’m thinking maybe I did past my sweet spot)
  • increase dose to either 27.5mgs/day - 193.5mgs/week or 30mgs/day - 210mgs/wk) (ride it out for about 10weeks maybe me thinking I past my sweet spot was just hormone fluctuations and now that I’ve stabilized but need a touch more)

How old are you bro?

By the way, any form of porn, pics of naked gals, whatever just do not get me anywhere near as hard as real a$$ does.

When it comes to your situation, i think a real woman might be the trick. You need to just be patient and give it more time.

Dont forget man, your body was built to absorb and use T like water. It needs it and wants it. Its only a matter of time until you are fully back to your optimal self.

When it comes to libido, your T will have done its job after 1 year, and beyond 2. If you dont notice improvement, have had a stable dose, its more of a behavioral and mental issue you are dealing with.

I would keep it simple. If you want to boost your estrogen take more T. Simple bro. Just a little bit more.

The other thing that helps me allootttttttttttttt. I mean a shit load is HCG. Before HCG, sensitivity during sex sucked. It was seriously lacking. With HCG, my sensitive is through the roof and along with it libido. It just feels better, and i have more desire.

Keep in mind this is anecdotal, I dont have any evidence, except for my own experience. I have been on and off HCG many times and even my wife notices when i am on or off.

Lately i have been taking 400iu every 4days. Ill add 100 every couple days until the next week comes.

It just works bro.I belive its due to the fact that your testicles shut down on TRT. The HCG stimulates those testicles, which allows the body to produce its own hormones, which allows the estrogen to be produces in the areas its lacking. Such as the penis, which causes sensitivity.

I believe it helps because E is parcine. Meaning it iis local to where its produced. This means you cannot run a lab and see how much E is in the brain or the penis or the heart even. E in the blood is a minutia (probably) of the E in your body.

I posted a article a few months back about new research that discovered E that’s produced in the brain is the cause for libido. Meaning, the estrogen in the brain creates a type of chemical reaction which creates the desire or libido. Look it up, pretty cool finding. They want to use it to stop sexual predators from being aroused anymore. I dont think itll stop them, they are mind fucked as it is.

Would you mind posting. This is interesting to me. I recently started a trial of finasteride more as prevention to keep my locks looking good. I am only taking 0.5 mg M,W,F. One thing that can occur with finasteride is that E2 goes up. Since starting the finasteride, my libido has been off the hook. I was expecting the opposite, but damn I am horny on the finasteride. I am also on 200 mg of TE.

Not sure if this is the same one, but it looks like it

Edit: this is the actual mice study

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