T Nation

New to This, Help with Labs Would Be Appreciated


#1

I appreciate all the info you guys put out on here, to be honest this stuff isn’t easy for me to grasp, but at this point i feel i have no choice but to study as much as i can, bc i feel this Dr has me all messed up. Im not to good with words so bear with me please. I been waiting for my most recent labs to come in before writing, in hopes someone can point me in the right direction. Ill try and post pics of them if i can. Not sure if this dr is treating me properly.
Im 32 yr old Male, 5’11’’ Currently 163lbs. I was 195lbs before starting trt and out of shape. I started seeing this alterative Dr in may 2017 for some back pain due to an old dirt bike injury in 2004. I have an L5 S1 Disc herniation & the past 2 years the pain has been pretty bad. It effects me on a daily basis. I walk on eggshells just to get through work most days. I haven’t been able do any of the things i use to be passionate about: Down hill MTB, Snow Boarding ect…
I originally went to see him for these colchicine treatments he offered, its an alternative treatment for this epidural my other dr was recommending, but they didn’t seem to help. He then ran my labs and did saliva testing. Based off the results he said i have really low Test which was 536 and under active thyroid. He recommended 200mg cypionate taken Monday & thurs. along with Anastrozole 1mg taken on Mondays. he also had me on compounded thyroid sr 60mg taken every morning. Along with a bunch of vitamins. He said this would help my back pain as well as loose weight.
I was concerned about this effecting my chances for having kids bc me & my fiancé were planning on trying in couple yrs, but he said i would be fine. I decided to roll the dice and give this a shot. 1st month on it was rough i couldn’t do anything that raised my heart rate i would get dizzy to the point where i felt i could pass out. I don’t know if i was sensitive to it but decided to keep on it. These side effects soon faded and i started to feel good. The 2nd month I felt it was starting to help me get toned and lose some weight for once. The 3rd month i felt like i was getting my life back, i could do yard work after work and ride my mountain bike again without much pain.
After the 3rd month is when i started to see negative side effects start. I was getting moody and would flip out over little things i would normally just blow off. I started to get anxiety & my nuts started to hurt like someone kicked me in them. This pain would come and go. I started getting heart pains at night. I had a constant sweat that would drip down the center of my spine. I would sweat thru every shirt i wore. My one nut started to get sucked up past my dick every time i nutted after sex i had to push it back in place.
Dr had me do my labs again & said my test levels were way too high:1500, & had me stop the test shots for 2weeks. Then told me to continue at a lower dose after the 2week break. Down to (.35 monday & .35 Thursday) and said to split my anasrozel in half, so half on Monday and half on thurs. Right around 2 weeks after stopping is when my Anxiety was through the roof and i threw my back out at work. I never threw it out this bad before, I was literally unable to walk or stand for 11days straight. Physical therapy got me back on my feet but my emotions and mood have been really bad since.
Around the 4-5th month I started having pain/pressure type pain in my pituitary gland area thats scaring me. My nut pain got to the point i had to go to ER. I could hardly walk it was so bad. They said it was from the test to stop. And did a cat scan and said nothin was wrong with my head. bs I went to see the TRT dr after the ER and he said to Stop and get a semen analysis and run my labs again. So this is where I’m currently at. The results from the semen analysis are not looking good they said, they couldn’t even do the full test bc semen was to poor. 0.2mill/ml . I been off everything since 11/16/17 Semen was done 11/27. My most recent blood was done 12/1/17:
I don’t even know what i should do at this point. I guess my first question is will i still be able to have kids? I would like to try and get my self back to normal without needing to be on TRT. What would you guys suggest i ask my dr for as far as PCT. HCG & Clomid, or HCG & nolvadex? Will i need to be on TRT if these don’t work?
Heres my lab results I’m just listing the things that are off, if you need all the numbers lmk i can try and up load it. Any help would be appreciated Thanks
Estradiol<5.0
FSH and LH 1.5
Testosterone Serum 84
Free Testosterone (Direct) 2.7
Creatinine Serum 0.65
ALT (SGPT) 82
BUN/Creatinine ratio 35
A/G Ratio 2.3


#2

It would help if you posted all lab results and reference values.


#3

Yes labs ranges please.

Reading between the line it seems as if you doctor is poor at managing your hormones, it seems your TT and E2 are all over the place. A Lot of the symptoms you’re describing sound like both high TT and high/low E2 symptoms, high E2 makes men become an emotional bitch. I’m my opinion you should have never been given an AI without proof of high E2, most doctors have these cookie cutter protocols designed for everyone, your pre-TRT labs are identical to mine, mainly super low E2, I do not even require an AI after 8 months on TRT. If your pre-TRT labs show really low E2 you will most likely be able to go without an AI altogether or at least a super low dose. There are AI over responders who are really sensitive and this will crash your E2 levels, symptoms would be joint and bone pain.

You don’t take an AI once a week because this would make your E2 levels low in the beginning of the week and high later in the week. Your E2 would be all over the place which would explain your hormone rollercoaster ride. Catch 22, most endo’s have no clue what their doing which is why they have these cookie cutter protocols designed for everyone, not everyone has high E2 on their pre-TRT labs so how could these cookie cutter protocols work for everyone? They do not. Most good endo’s will base your dosage of your pre-TRT labs, if your E2 is low and AI will not be given until such time you actually confirm high E2.

No HCG? That’s a red flag right there that your doctor is clueless, bet your doctor doesn’t know what it is.


#4
Sorry im not too good with computers whats the easiest way for me to upload my labs? I tried uploading the pdf version but its not letting me?

#5

Everyone types it in, I know it’s a pain.


#6

Take a picture of the lab with your phone and you can upload the gif/jpg file to one of the post.


#7


#8

They messed you up bro. That’s exactly what my estrogen levels looked like when I sought help. I’ve never had TT and FT that low though. Best of luck. I hope they get you back where you need to be. HCG should get you fertile again. I’m not an expert but some Testosterone and HCG should get you right again along with some AI micro-dosing.


#9

How long not on TRT for the lab work?
Two weeks is still transient.
E2 is low and not impeding recovery.
thyroid could be a factor
prolactin unknown…

pituitary better as a MRI, CAT is xrays

You can attempt a HPTA restart, but then things not expected to be better than before TRT. HPTA restart has some similarities to PCT. Most PCT advice is wrong/stupid.

E2 was very low which can be a major problem.

We have guys here doing T+AI+hCG who have made babies. hCG preserves the testes.

Many need to find better doctors.

Your story makes me suspect your thyroid treatment and diagnosis. Please obtain and post pre thyroid Rx thyroid labs.

Many guys have thyroid issues from not using iodized salt. Iodine is part of the thyroid hormones. See below re “oral body temperatures” to eval current thyroid function status.

Please list supplements.
Do vitamins list 150mcg iodine and 150-200mcg selenium?

TRT:

  • self inject 50mg T twice a week, subq #29 1/2" 0.5ml insulin syringes
  • 0.5mg anastrozole at time of T injections, 1/4th that dose if overe-responder
  • 250iu hCG subq EOD

Pre TRT labs should have been : TT, FT, E2, LH/FSH, prolactin, CBC, AST/ALT, TSH, fT3, fT4 and with pituitary concern IGF-1 to eval GH status.

What blows to the head? - can damage pituitary and lower LH/FSH and then T.


Please read the stickies found here: About the T Replacement Category

  • advice for new guys - need more info about you
  • things that damage your hormones
  • protocol for injections
  • HPTA restart
  • finding a TRT doc

Evaluate your overall thyroid function by checking oral body temperatures as per the thyroid basics sticky. Thyroid hormone fT3 is what gets the job done and it regulates mitochondrial activity, the source of ATP which is the universal currency of cellular energy. This is part of the body’s temperature control loop. This can get messed up if you are iodine deficient. In many countries, you need to be using iodized salt. Other countries add iodine to dairy or bread.

KSman is simply a regular member on this site. Nothing more other than highly active.

I can be a bit abrupt in my replies and recommendations. I have a lot of ground to cover as this forum has become much more active in the last two years. I can’t follow threads that go deep over time. You need to respond to all of my points and requests as soon as possible before you fall off of my radar. The worse problems are guys who ignore issues re thyroid, body temperatures, history of iodized salt. Please do not piss people off saying that lab results are normal, we need lab number and ranges.

The value that you get out of this process and forum depends on your effort and performance. The bulk of your learning is reading/studying the suggested stickies.


#10


#11

These are the vitamins he currently has me on. Ill post my prior labs as well. Thanks for the reply I appreciate you guys.


#12

Please provide link to ?balance D? and serophos

Do vitamins list 150mcg iodine and 150-200mcg selenium?

B-complex multi-vit with trace elements including 150mcg iodine and 150-200mcg selenium.

People with darker skin do not create Vit-D3 from sun exposure very well and when living in colder climates can easily be Vit-D3 deficient. Many with pale complexions are Vit-D3 deficient too. Suggest Vit-D3 5000iu, look for tiny oil filled capsules and take one per day, 25,000iu for first 5 days.

Is your doctor treating you for depression with these “natural” supplements?


#13

#16

This is my first labs. Along with saliva text results