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New To The Strength Training World


hi fellow strenght lifters, the name is paul and im 6'5" 250lbs as of this morning and im done with the whole bodybuilding routine bullshit hah im realling interested in strenght training and just trying to get fcukin strong as a bull .. i came across last night the "9 week basic trainging program by Dave Tate" you think this would be a good routine to start with and get a good base with?

as i was skimming threw it i found it very interesting and was concerned there is no deadlifts, so if i was to do this 9 week program, would it be good to do it again but switch the ME flat bench with incline bench and the ME squat with deadlifts?

i just wantto know if that would be a good thing to do or just be an idiotic thing to do hah .. well thank you guys!!

the 9 week program - http://www.elitefts.com/documents/9week-training-program.htm


You could perform it as written, or you could add deadlifts as a max-effort lift and use it for a 2-3 week cycle. Also, remember that the max-effort squatting type exercises will carryover to your deadlift strength. Essentially, you can get stronger in the deadlift by not deadlifting.

You can do the same with substituting the incline bench for a few weeks of max-effort work.


thanks man i appreciate it, but would it be to much if i do it for 9 weeks instead of switiching every 2-3 weeks like flat and squat for 9 weeks then dead and inclne for another 9 weeks>? u know what i mean ..


You definitely want to switch your max-effort lift every 2-4 weeks!!! I would never perform the same lift for 9 weeks straight. It goes against the idea behind some of the Westside methods.


btw my gym doesnt have a Reverse Hypers and a Glute Ham Raises machine? which excersize can i replace them with? anyone have any ideas


Romanian deadlifts, pull-throughs, leg curls, back extensions, reverse hyper extensions done off a high bench, upright sled drags, natural glute ham raises, hamstring back bridge on Swiss ball with leg curl, sprints, etc.


thanks bro .. as for the 1st 3 weeks on the program .. the ME days have good mornings and board press .. for good mornings im gonna substitute that with deads and the boardpress with flat bench ..

for the weeks 4-6 it has written down me lower would be low box squats wich im gonna substitute that with normal squats and the me upper is floor press which im gonna substitue that with incline bench ..

now the last 3 weeks it has for the me lower is good mornings which will be deads and me upper is ball press which im gonna leave it alone .. u think those are good substitues?


I wouldn't use deadlifts again for the last three weeks. Either perform a different squat variation or rack pulls (deadlifts done just below the knees on the power rack).

You shouldn't repeat the same max-effort exercise more than once every 12 weeks.


why is it bad to perform the same max effort excercise more than once every 12 weeks?


It's very easy to get used to what you're doing and "plateau". You should switch it up by using bands, chains, or variations of the lifts.

For example, if you're doing max-effort squats:

Week 1:
Box Squats - straight weight

Week 2:
Good Mornings

Week 3:
Rack Pulls - Straight weight

Week 4:
Box Squats - plates and bands

Week 5:
Arched Back Good Mornings

Week 6:

etc, etc.

Make sure you're doing accessory work and you'll be hitting new numbers in no time.


It is not necessarily bad to do it more than once in a 12 week cycle. It is bad to do one movement for more than 3-4 weeks strait. Through much experimentation it had been determined that lifter can not continue to make progress on any one max effort movement for an extended period of time. Some people need to change every week others can go 3-4 weeks before they need to switch. This changes with your training age.

The essence of the conjugate training template is to let you continue to make progress well after this period is over. This is accomplished by rotating different movements that train different parts of the competition lift. For example board press trains the top part of your bench. Floor press takes away the leg drive and a large part of the lat involvement. Deficits dead trains the low end part of the deadlift. Rack-pulls train lock-out.

Test yourself to see where you fall. Try the same lift until you stop making progress. If you fail in week three then you know that you need to rotate every two weeks.

Personally, my upper and lower body are different. I can make progress on my lower body with same movement for up to 4 weeks, but I need change my upper body movement every 1-2 weeks.

Eventually, you learn to know you body better and you will know when it is time to switch.

Just some food for thought:

I train for raw strength, so I think it important to work bench with a full range of motion more often than geared lifters. I might rotated every two weeks between a full range movement and partial range movement. I might do something like this for an 8 week cycle.

Flat Bench 2 weeks
Board Press 2 weeks
Incline 2 weeks
Floor Press 2 weeks.

I pretty specific about why I chose certain movements.

Flat Bench - Because this ultimately what I am trying to make stronger.

Board Press - I do these with a pause and let the bar sink into the board. These really helped me learn how to stay tight and get leg drive.

Incline - I don't do a lot of shoulder work, I might rotate this with some overheads.

Floor Press - This is my weakest press and it really blasts the hell out of my triceps, which is my weakness in bench.

You could also rotate in close grip presses, but I like to keep these for supplemental stuff.

I don't currently use bands or chains in my max effort work, but they are also options.


JMO, but you should try to stick as close to the program as written the first time around. If you start to get run down, cut out a supplement here and there, but again, stay as close to the original as possible. Make adjustments after you've given it a fair shot - I think you'll learn more that way and will be able to give the program a better assessment if you do.


Why can't you do floor press, or lockouts?


floor presses i can, but what are lockouts?



This is where you set the pins in the power rack above your chest and bench down to the pins. It is kind of like a board press, but in power rack and using the pins as a board.


my gym doesnt have that so im stuck only doin flat bench inlcine and if i have someone to deadlift me the bar on floor press than that, thats why i asked that question before .. which i as wondering if anyone has a answer too


hey guys i got a quick question .. on the ws4sb III it says after i do my ME excersize (which today was close grip incline bench) that i do 2 sets of max reps on either flat or incline dumbbell bnch .. now in ws4sb II it says after the me exrsize to perform 3-4 sets 8-10 reps on either flt or incline dumbbell bench .. can i do both like for 2 weeks after the me excersize do 2 sets max reps then the next 2 weeks for 3-4 sets o 8-10 reps? just thinking ..


The real question is why. Why do you want to do this? What benefit do you think you get from doing it? You can do anything you want, but you really should know why you are doing something rather than just throwing stuff in.