T Nation

New to Site With Questions


#1

Im 25 yo, 6'2'' and 216lbs. I began trt at 22 yo after experiencing anxiety and depression. My first labs returned with a t level of 349. I began taking 200 mg test cypionate and eventually moved up to 300 mg. The anxiety and depression have greatly improved but still pop up occasionally. After I put on 30lbs in two months between working out and water retention I changed doctors because my original doc wouldnt check E2.

Between finding a new doc, i lowered my dose to 200 mg/wk. Found a new doc who would check T and E2. T-356 and E2-39. Doc prescribed anastrozole at 1mg eod but I knew this to be too much. I began taking .5 mg anastrozole eod but dropped estrodiol too low and significantly lowered the dose to .25 mg/e3d.

Seems like this also dropped estrodiol too low. My question is, why has my testosterone returned to pre trt levels after taking 200 mg/wk? Also, im having a tough time dialing in E2. Any input from someone more experienced?


#2

Please read the advice for new guys sticky and don’t ignore other health issues referenced there.

Post more info as per the sticky. Post all lab work with ranges in a list form.

If you inject once a week and do labs after one week, your numbers will be lower. Inject at least twice a week and take your AI then, or do both EOD. See the protocol for injections sticky.

There are a few guys here who are hyper-metabolizers of T. They need 300mg/week to get what others get from 100mg/week.

Anastrozole dose needs to match serum T levels and if serum T levels are changing a lot, anastrozole dose and E2 levels can never be right. From what you say, you may be an anastrozole over-responder. But there really is not enough info here to be sure. You need steady T levels to get E2 dialed in.


#3

age-25
weight-220
body hair-thick beard in 3 weeks, lots of body hair
I carry body weight around mid section-16% body fat
symptoms-anxiety/depression, brain fog, fatigue.
Since starting trt- trouble emptying bladder, body odor, bloating, still have the anxiety/depression
RX/OTC- 200mg test weekly, anastrozole-still playing with dose, 50mg zinc daily, vitamin D3 400 iu daily

Labs-

12-26-12
testosterone-342ng/dl range (348-1197)
T free and weekly bound 30.6% (9.0-46.0%)
T free and weekly bound 104.7 (40-250)
TSH .704 (.3-4.9uIU/ml)
LH 3.3 (1.1-8.8 mIU/dl)
FSH 4.5 (1.3-13.6 mIU)
Started 200 mg test weekly

2-6-13

Test-578 ng/dl (348-1197)
started 300 mg test weekly

5-16-13

Test- 847 ng/dl (348-1197)
Test % f&wb 44.1 (9-46)
test f&wb 373.5 (40-250)

2-3-14

Test-669 ng/dl (348-1197)
test %f&wb 56.2 (9-46)
test f&wb 376 (40-250)
E2- 37 (unknown range-dr. didnt specify)

New Dr. 4-30-14

cholesterol total-178 (125-200 mg/dl)
HDL-43 (>40)
triglycerides-145 (<150)
LDL-106 (<130)
TSH-1.28 (.40-4.5)
White blood cells-6.6 (3.6-10.8)
RBC-5.82 (4.2-5.8) high
hemoglobin-16.9 (13.2-17.1)
Hematocrit-51.2 (38.5-50) high
mcv-88 (80-100)
mch-29.1 (27-33)
mchc-33 (32-36)
RDW-14.9 (11-15)
Vit b12-517 (200-1100)
folate-12.7 (3.4->5.4)
FSH- <.7 (1.6-8) low
Progesterone-<.5 (<1.4)
Test total-356 (241-827) after going back to 200 mg weekly
E2-30 (<39)
PSA-.6 (<4)
Vit D-27 (30-100)

6-30-14

Test-514 (241-827)
E2-32 (39-unknown, dr. didnt specify)

Diet-no set diet. I stick to protein and greens when I can but I also take in a lot of carbs.
training- I lift 3 days a week most weeks.
Testes ache terribly bad for days at a time for no known reason. Dr. said running was causing it (nice guy but a fuckin tard when it comes to trt)
Morning wood disappeared at 19 yo. Recently came back after starting anastrozole but anxiety/depression also returned along with severe itchy skin and achy joints. I have been playing with the dose and it appears even 1/8 mg E3d brings on the low libido, achy joints, and itchy skin.

Since Jan 2014, I have felt great with little issues regarding anxiety and depression and have had lots of energy. That is until I started messing with anastrozole. I began taking .5 mg eod and the first two weeks dreams returned along with being woken up several times a night with erections. At the two week mark, I crashed with anxiety and depression. I have been playing with the dose and dreams with spontaneous erections return for a day or two at a time. I cannot seem to find a balance at all. When E2 goes too low, I get extremely irritable. When too high I get choked up for no reason whatsoever. Im finding it hard to stick with a protocol for any amount of time because of the desperation to feel better. My E2 needs to come down but any amount drives it into the ground. Does anyone have a suggestion? Are there any Ais out there that arent as potent as anastrozole? I know this has been covered but ppl get off track and i cant seem to find the answers im looking for. I havent checked morning temperature yet but i plan to start.


#4

you might want to consider an alternate compound to control your e2. just a thought


#5

That’s what I was thinking but are any other Ais weaker? Even at 1 dose 1/8 mg of anastrozole I shoot straight through the sweet spot. I feel better when I take much less test around 160 mg but my numbers fall near 300 ng/dl. I’m only 25 and would prefer to be about 2 or 3 times that.


#6

If you feel much better at 160mg then why not do that and not worry so much about what the number is. I would just want to feel the best I could.


#7

That’s the conclusion I’ve come to. The fact that I might be taking too much never hit me until yesterday. I have friends taking 400 mg test a week (dr prescribed) and feel awesome. Didn’t occur to me that only 200 mg may be too much.


#8

Using liquid anastrozole? You can dilute it further. Not liquid? Then dissolve your tablets in a measured amount of vodka and dispense by the drop.

Anastrozole has a 36 hour half life. It takes a week for your serum levels to get steady after any dose change. And when E2 gets too high or too low, there may be a time delay for your brain to get to where it wants to be. So you can be jumping around and not allowing things to get balanced before you change things again.

I can’t tell how much anastrozole you are taking per week.

You need to inject more frequently.


#9

Thanks ksman. I’m injecting 80 mg twice a week right now which will drop my test levels pretty low , most likely near 400ng/dl. I’ve been all over the place with anastrozole bc when everything hits the sweet spot I feel great. When I’m not, I’m beyond miserable and start tinkering out of desperation.

Lately my heart rate has been 75 bpm when it’s normally around 56. I felt pretty good for about 7 months taking 180 mg once a week but never had morning wood or nocturnal erections along with occasional anxiety. When I started anastrozole I was taking .5 mg eod and for two weeks I felt spot on. Then started feeling depressed all of a sudden and haven’t gotten back to normal yet.


#10

When I take any amount of anastrozole, I get really depressed bc I assume I’m an over-responder. When I don’t take any, I get anxiety but not depressed. Feels like e2 swings wildly from day to day. What do you guys think about DIM and how much should I take? Is high e2 that strongly correlated with anxiety and low e2 with depression? I feel great for the short amount of time I think things are balanced out.


#11

And my heart rate along with palpitations stays high even when I feel perfect otherwise? Anyone have a recommendation on that?


#12

Anxiety can mess with heart beat.

Palpitations come in spells? You could try vitamin K2 and make sure that you get enough magnesium and potassium.

You can try aromasin. DIM often ineffective.

Can you post CBC blood chemistry etc?


#13

Palpitations are constant. I know it’s anxiety related but I felt perfectly fine for 7 months but still had the thudding heart beat and elevated heart rate. Should e2 be my main concern or should I focus my attention elsewhere. Can e2 of 32 cause this much anxiety? Just began the paleo diet btw.


#14

try vitamin K2

Worked for my Dad.


#15

I just realized my latest labs were done by Quest. They used the ultrasensitive test for e2 with a <39 reference range. My e2 was 32. Was this the proper test and if not…is it of any use to me?


#16

E2=32 is too high.

With more frequent injections and steadier levels you might feel more balanced.

Your TSH has been bouncing around. What are your waking and mid afternoon body temperatures? See the thyroid basics sticky.

Hematocrit is getting to be a worry. Can you donate blood and if you do, do you feel better?

You are a young guy and should be using hCG or nolvadex to preserve your testes and fertility.


#17

Yea finding a doc who is on board with that is nearly impossible in middle tn.


#18

hey fellas, I need some insight from you experts. My testosterone was 359 and E2 32. I was taking 200 mg test weekly and the doc started me on anastrozole. My first dose was 1 mg then I read here that was way too much and lowered it to .5 mg eod. I felt great for two weeks with strong nighttime and morning erections. So much so that it was waking me up at night. I might add that all of my anxiety left for that period of time.

After about two weeks at that dose I got pretty depressed and stopped the anastrozole for a couple days thinking I went too low. I restarted a few days later at .25 mg eod and immediately noticed severe joint soreness and strong depression so I discontinued. When I don’t take anastrozole my anxiety comes back which bugs the piss out of me. When I take it I get super depressed no matter how little I take. The doc had me lower my test to 80 mg biweekly to lower e2 which has left me tired and in a brain fog. She also wanted me to add DIM which is also making me a little depressed and still have anxiety. My questions are…

Because of anastrozoles short half life, could not taking enough of it cause a quick rebound effect and I need to get back to .5mg maybe twice a week?
Could Dim actually be lowering e2 too low causing me to be depressed?
And why after taking 200mg of test weekly am I only at 359 instead of the numbers in the 700-800 like a lot of guys?


#19

I also forgot to add that even when I feel great with no anxiety or depression for weeks, I now have a constantly elevated heart rate and palpitations. The doc wants me to wear a monitor for 2 days next month if lowering test dose and taking dim doesn’t work.


#20

I also noticed my progesterone was undetectable. Any insight