[quote] Brook wrote:
Well i understood that - assumed that, but i was thinking that due to the pharmacokinetics of nandrolone with a Decanoate ester attached it wouldnt give any real appreciable results by that time - but with a frontload it would i guess.[/quote]
Yes.
Actually, even with long-chain esters, once distributed in the body the rate at which the parent compound is released (due to esterase enzymes cleaving the ester) is fastest early on and slows down as levels decrease. Simply because there is more drug available for the esterases early on.
It’s not – and also not that I think that you were thinking that – that somehow the molecules know how long they were in the body and release at a higher rate after some longer time, that time being longer for the longer chain esters.
It’s a declining rate for all of them, it’s just that the decline is slower for the long-chain esters.
That is, after distribution.
[quote]Physiologically, would you say that for gains, then 3-4 weeks would be the shortest time one should choose for this type of AAS use? Other than cycles designed around your 2on, 4off plan… as this is a different way to use than standard cycling of different compounds over time.
It is a new prospect to me, and while i know cycles have been designed like this (3 week blitz style) for years - i forgot about all that after learning a little about the pharmacokinetics of some of the drugs and making incorrect assumptions.
And do you ALWAYS frontload?[/quote]
I think the shortest that makes sense is about 2 weeks. Really no reason to not go that long.
[quote]So it really is a simple matter of when the drug has built maximum steady blood levels is when you notice the best gains?
This was assumed by myself a few months back but a couple of members here contested this and i cannot remember the reasons given, but it seems to be common sense to me.
Thankyou… this information will allow me to have a lot more freedon when designing my (and others) cycles.[/quote]
There’s also a several (like 3 or 4) day lag between the androgen receptor being activated and resulting maximum biological effect, due to the fact that producing mRNA and the mRNA causing the ribosomes to produce proteins is a relatively slow process in man.
Also training stimulus and state of the body might cause the point of best gains to be different than the point of maximum levels being achieved.
But best rate of results can be achieved (whether other factors agree is another question) anytime after about say 3 or 4 days after peak levels are achieved.
[quote][b]The reason it’s “almost completely regardless” is that half-life refers to elimination kinetics (how fast the drug is gotten rid of and levels tail off) whereas absorption kinetics are also relevant to speed of onset, and the longer acting drugs also have slower absorption kinetics.
But this is not particularly important and onset of action is pretty fast anyway with the long-acting esters if frontloaded, and not so if not.[/b]
Do you refer to the fact that an AAS with a long ester attached will take longer to be metabolised… or to the fact that all the AAS with no esters still have their own half lives and absorbtion kinetics?
If i may use benzodiazepines as an example, Temazepam has a fast absorbtion rate and a short elimination rate… making it a very fast acting drug(of this class) with diazepam being the opposite… - think prop and cyp. correct?[/quote]
With the oral androgens the absorption and distribution is so fast as to be a non-issue.
With non-esterified injectables (T or Winstrol suspension) kinetics are completely different and have largely to do with particle size of the drug.
With injectables, it takes longer for the long-chain esters to distribute from the injection site to being dissolved in fat throughout the body. The rate at which esterases cleave the ester is much improved when the drug is fully distributed than when it is still at the injection site.
So in actuality there is some delay in achieving peak levels after injection, even though the peak AMOUNT of drug in the body is at the moment right after injection.
It is not really an important factor though IMO except maybe with weirdo drugs nobody uses like the buccilate (half-life something like a month, the intended use being male contraception.)
[quote]Anyway, do you have a link to a source listing the absorbtion kinetics of the different AAS? This would be very helpful to me in designing cycles.
Thankyou! I have thoroughly enjoyed this.[/quote]
You’re welcome, glad to be of any interest!
Probably my article on anabolic steroid esters on the Mesomorphosis site has a reference giving what you’re looking for. I’m sure it does mention equations predicting both absorption and elimination kinetics according to ester chain length.
Though it doesn’t seem to me absorption kinetics are needed or useful for planning cycles. I never have anyway and wouldn’t know what to do with them.
Elimination kinetics have consequences that can be accomodated and largely corrected to give levels as desired by how the injections are planned, but absorption kinetics pretty much are as they are, it seems to me.
The only thing I can think of is if being a true, it’s-got-to-be-99-percent-plus ideal perfectionist, one could plan on using say enanthate through most of the cycle but figure out how to juggle propionate and enanthate doses through the first week so as to fill in the first couple of days better rather than waiting on the distribution of the enanthate. But that would be kind of a new frontier in perfectionism!
Not that there is anything wrong with that.
