T Nation

New to Forum, Question Regarding TRT and Estrogen

Hows it going guys, im wondering if anyone has any ideas regarding whats going on with me, before i start ill give you a quick run down of my TRT and stats
age: 30
height: 5`11
weight: 182lbs

dosage: 60mg of test cypionate every third day

si was pinning 125mg of Enth last year, until i came across MUCH information regarding pinning smaller amounts on a regular basis, which ive applied and its been up and down but i finally think ive found a “relatively” good sweet spot. However, i do often seem to get symptoms of both high and low estrogen, and its hard to tell what to do about it. i`m waiting on a doctors appointment which is due in 2 weeks (due to COVID) where im going to ask my doctor for blood tests for estrogen and test levels, no doubt since im in the UK i will have to ask at least 190 doctors before i find a one that says yes and not “come off steroids or no help”.

anyway, im finding it harder to shift bodyfat in places that ALWAYS came off first when i was only slightly younger (2-3 years ago) i have joint pain some days, extreme tiredness, some times very poor erections and depression. then on other days im fired up with full boners (sorry for graphic) and no pain. my bodyfat percentage (done with calipers) reads 13%, yet my stomach and chest are still holding what seems to be flabby skin, which has never ever happened because when i dieted for shows when i was younger it would ALWAYS come off my stomach and chest first but come off my back last.

ive got veins bursting out my arms and a soft chest, no itchyness or swelling on the nipples and no lumps either. looking online i see half of my symptoms are LOW estrogen and half are HIGH, so until i have my doctors appointment i thought id ask you fellas on here because id take advice from guys who know about trt any day than UK doctors who dont even know what it is and think youre a junkie. has anyone experienced this, and what did you do about it?

Google Medichecks. Its £90 for a Full male hormone panel- thats including a venus draw at a venue of your choice.

Then you’ve got some data to go off.

thanks for the reply, i will strongly consider this depending on what my doctor says, id rather get it for free than having to fork that kind of money out for it, but inevitably it will have to happen if they say no. im jus wondering if anyone else has had these symptoms and has had blood work done and what they found etc, before my appointment where i can ask

This could be a really long reply… I have read your post three times and I am a bit confused as well as you are. Average dosage of 180mg T-Cyp is not unreasonable, yet your symptoms are odd to say the least. What seems to be a cycling amount of E2 is what throws me. I don’t know what kind of diet you usually have but if you have the back fat that is sort of like “wings” parallel to the spine, that is generally one of the first signs of Insulin resistance. Although this not be well known or widely believed by some people, there a lot of people that have changed their diets to a version of carb cycling, a lost a ton of body fat, and gained energy and clearness of thought. There is a Doctor named Mauro Di Pasquale, who wrote a great book a while back, “The Metabolic Diet” it is a variation of carb cycling that really works. I was eating 1,000 more calories a day than I should have been and leaned out like you wouldn’t believe. If you want more info, let me know. It has been a while, and I don’t know if PM’s are still allowed.

What’s your actual current protocol? How long have you been on it?

What are you taking exactly? Only T? Nothing else? How long? What symptoms? Any AI? Any previous labs?

only testosterone now for about a year, before that i had 20mg tbol a day for 6 weeks during. like i saythe symptoms are a mix of high AND low estrogen, some days im fine then the next day boom crashy anxiety depression darkness etc. no AI as im waiting to hear back about getting my bloods done, i dont wanna take an AI incase the problem is LOW estrogen then i could really f""" myself up

60mg of test cypionate every third day, i have been on a while now, cant say for exact sure numbers but years

the fat is more at the bottom of my back and slightly at the bottom of my chest, im generally low carb (180-250g a day max) and every now and then i have a couple days of 300g jus to fill out, thanks for the reply buddy

We have different views of what low carb is, and that is okay, but I suggest you get down between 50-75g per day and have 2 days a week of 300 or so. I can almost guarantee you if you cut your carbs down this low, the stubborn fat will melt away. I speak this from personal experience.

hi KNB cheers for the reply, you see i would BUT ive been keto before, And very low carb like you say, and to be honest the only thing that happened was i lost weight but not anymore fat than i have now, my abs were still covered by a layer of water and fat and i was always smooth and never ever pumped even on the higher days. i seem to lose muscle very quyick, i even upped my protein to 250-280G a day sort of range when i was 100g of carbs or less, i was noticeably smaller people commented on it too :frowning:

This is not an estrogen issue. Its an inconsistent flow of Androgens, switch to pinning ED and watch the difference. Forget about Estrogen. What kind of workout routine do you have?

TRT can increase sodium reabsorption via the kidneys, forget the hormone panel and just decrease your dosage until you start to feeling better.

You need to give each protocol at least 6 weeks for hormones to stabilize, but during the first couple of weeks hormone levels will be fluctuating.

Also your hormone levels are projected to higher if going from a weekly to twice a weekly protocol if the dosage remains the same.

Why do you say forget about E2 and change your dosing protocol? Maybe E2 isn’t an issue for you, but you are a member of a small minority. Theoretically smaller more frequent doses of T can help to control E2 surges, but not always.

He should focus on making one change and one change only. Forget about Estrogen, and only consider your T dosage. Sometimes you need less T or more. Depends on how your system is built. So change, the frequency first and then gauge how you feel, then take a bit more or less. Your choice, but one thing at a time. Frequency should resolve the roller coaster.

As someone who has personally struggled with Estrogen issues for over 20 years, your advice is not the best for everyone. Not me picking a fight, just sighting my personal experience.

Like I said. Its not an Estrogen issue. Its a frequency issue.

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So you are telling me I don’t know my own body or what I am talking about?

We see this constantly. Everyone blames everything on estrogen. It usually isn’t estrogen.

How many years of Pharmacology or Pre Med do either one of you guys have? If your answers are zero, please stop giving people uneducated advice.