T Nation

New studies on Soy

anyone else see this study? it supposidly by the same people that tested the tesosterone serums of people using soy proteins. it basicaly says that soy isolate dont have phyto estrogen but can work as an anti estrogen. very intresting… also gives the backup that sys good for your heart yadda yadda. and it says say is a bodybuilders protein funny none of the guys i see buy soy milk rally look like bodybuilders kinda look more like skinny hippies anyways id appreciate if someone qualafied would do a search for the factory of proteins and red this to help me out here im not about to buy it but i searched medscape and it all seemed good. i tried this post beore
so please dont erase it as i will be forced to cry and curl in the fetil position and attempt to suck myself off.

Perhaps your post was deleted for blatant lack of proofreading? Seriously, the only people who seem to be saying nice things about soy are those selling it.

 Thanks Tek!  You took the words right out of my mouth.  Som bodebilders cant spell and use periods in ther sentences we all dum

I think that assumptions that anything OTHER than raw soy can have a negative effect on T levels & raise E levels is half-assed. It’s been common knowledge in the Body Building world that cranking up Soy a few weeks before competition can have a “hardening effect” on the body. This may be due to some Anti-E effects of soy. In fact some studies suggest it DOES lower E levels. Unfortunately some of the same studies suggest it lowers circulating T levels as well.

I think you should have omitted that last sentence before you posted your message.

BTW, my wife has been taking a soy isoflavone to help her out with her “female problems” and it has been great for her. That tells me that soy isoflavones would be bad for me.

I used a protein mix w/soy in it several years ago… Without changing any other training/nutrition variable, I got noticably harder/more cut. I’m debating trying soy again, as I really think it is not the great evil many make it out to be. Of course, the soy I used tasted like ass, which has been the main reason I haven’t tried it since! If I use it again, I’ll post my impressions.

I read in a study that has probably since been buried 6 feet under by the “industry”, not that any of the typical soy consumers actually read them anyway (hey it’s easier just to believe the hype), that caucasians can only absorb 14% of soy protein. If you are asian you can absorb something like 86%, but no race can fully absorb soy protein anyway.

I have used soy products for many years without any negeative side effects. In fact, I got much stronger and leaner after incorporating a good amount of Soy in my diet. I do not believe the “Estrogen elevating” garbage abour soy and believe that it is just a ploy by the meat and dairy industry to stump soy consumption.

I know T-mag is very anti-soy but the only studies that I have had a different experience with soy. I have been on soy for 5 years and had nothing but gains in strength and in muscle. I have been able to get very cut on soy also. I am currently at 7-8% body fat at 218 lbs. I know all of the studies that have been on animals but there has been no studies done on humans on the bad effects of soy.

For the guys who use soy, how are you taking in your soy protein. Is it protein shake, soy milk, tofu, Boca burgers, or some other form. I’d like to experiment with soy, but I’ve tried soy protein powders in the past, and even the best brands taste horrible.

sorry about the grammer fellas but i usually dony use much on forums. i just type it out. but the thing is that Tmag is anti soy but saying that they’re tied up in the dairy buisness to abolish soy and raise cattle numbers? what the hell is that? anyways basically i see a reason for this site to pot this study too because they probably have 3 tons of soy sitting in the wharehouse due to recent studies. but you guys really think soy hardens ya up huh? that would support the anti E claim. so should we conclude other than the fact soy tastes like ass itd be good to maybe ingest it and track body comp see if it makes any diffrence in hardness?

Grant, I am not saying that t-mag is funded by the meat and dairy industry for their anti soy rhetoric. However, look at how many beef and dairy ads are on TV and magazines and how soy has been criticized at the peak of its popularity. Products such as veggie burgers and soy milk do compete with the dairy and meat industry and anything that hurts profits is going to start a marketing war.

AS for what soy products i use, I take tofu, trader joes veggie burgers and soy nuggets, and soy protein isolate. I also use some nutrition bars that are soy isolate based such as Cliff.

Why doesnt someone get their E and T levels checked and then use soy for two months and get them checked again?

i think cause theres too many variables in the endocrine system hard to tell what caused the drops. but itd be a good controlled study

Meat and dairy aren’t the only one’s with lots of money and powerful lobbying efforts behind them, there are a couple of monstrous sized companies backing soy such as Monsanto that are making a killing on soy. Just thought I’d balance the conspiracy theory out.

whats the glycemic index and insulin index on soy milk?

Jong, good point.

Soy protein is one of the hardest proteins for the body to absorb. The American Dairy Counsil has tons of info on the benefits and down falls of this product. Soy or whey protein can be aided in assimilation by the use of a protein which helps break down the soy or whey protein. This product called lysophosphatidcholine. It was to go on the market in pill form and was too sticky to be run. Currently Kilo sports sells this product to several of the big manufacturers as an additive in their whey protein. With whey protein, some vendors advertise their new protein shake as the ultimate transfer system. These perveyors or these shakes with Lysop… sell at about $35.00. The product in its raw form sells for $20.00 a kilo. You use 1/2 a tsp per whey protein or soy protein shake.
My last thought about soy is if a body builder cuts whey protein and shifts to soy, his/her muscles may define hard and not grow as much or hydrate as much as on a whey protein product, giving the illusion that the soy is making the muscle harder. Similar to what one may find when cutting the use of whey intake in half and contiues their same exersize routine. THe body will limit muscle growth but should firm up or even shrink due to catabolics. Peace.

Mac, give me a break man, the american dairy council has studies stating that soy is not absorbed well. Of course they do! They are in direct competition with soy.