T Nation

New Squat/DL Successes & Woes

315 Squat: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQ5VGxH__bQ

335 Squat Miss: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UeOthiAEF4

365 Deadlift: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4vyhHOlk9E

385 Deadlift Miss: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8643bD8EP1w

Specifically looking for tips on the squat, I missed it pretty high up. I’m suspecting weak quads for the deadlift.

I don’t have much to say, but I’d say slower descent would help you.

For the squat:

try keeping your elbows facing down instead of back. This will keep your back tighter and your posture more upright. I think you just lost your balance with 335 and ended up falling forward. at least that’s what it looks like to me, FWIW.

Post #2 hit the primary nail on the head. Your descent is WAAAAYYYYYY too fast. I know it seems like a good idea to “attack” a lift, but slow is fast. With a descent speed like that you are going to have to apply a ton of force to get out of the hole.

The same concept applies to deads and bench, slow is fast. Don’t try to rip deads from the floor. A higher peak maximum force can be developed if the lift is done in a steady fashion.

Also you lean forward too much. If you watch your videos you almost have to tuck your ass under your hips get low enough (no no for the lumbar spine).

It looks like you weren’t very tight. Take more time to get set up, try to stay really tight and keep your arch out of the bottom.

How much lower back work do you do?

As said, slow down.

Stay tight, keep the neck and spine in line (if that makes any sense), slowly lower maybe a 3.1.1 tempo. Good work.

Thanks for the advice as always guys.

Definitely didn’t lose balance on the 335 but I could not for the life of me extend my torso.

As for the lumbar spine, I think I’m doing quite well for myself considering that this was me almost exactly a year ago: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLUeVQ9tiB4

Tightness can definitely be worked on. I’ve always been led to believe that a fast descent will activate the stretch reflex more but I’ll experiment with it. So “Dip, Grip and Rip” for deadlift is wrong?

I watched your 365 deadlift. Keep your head down eyes facing toward the ground more. It’s not good for your neck to be cranked up like that. Stay tight, psych yourself up, lift.

Try a 3.1.1 tempo. Lowering the weight slower creates a bigger metabolic disturbance within your body. Explode when you lift.

Your 365 deadlift was stupidly easy. Decent form too, I’d suggest starting the pull with lower hips.

Your weakness on the deadlift I think, is a weak mind. You didn’t even give that 385 a good pull, you just gave up. Harden up and give it a good few seconds of pulling, a max effort lift - don’t expect it to go up fast, give it time…

As for the squat, again, you have pretty decent form so well done. You have a slight tendancy to raise the hips first, this can be corrected by pulling the elbows under the bar, which helps keep the chest up - that and focusing on keeping the chest up.

On your 335 squat miss, it looked like you had it but 2 things: you let your hips raise, and you looked like you lost your balance with weight on toes. Focus on pulling your elbows under and keeping the chest up, and that 335 should fall real soon.

Squat:
Slow the descent
Sit back into it more (a wider stance and emphasis on pushing the knees out hard all through the descent and lift will help a lot)
Keep the weight on your heels
Work on your arch - Good Mornings
Push out your chest/squeeze together shoulder blades before getting under the bar

Deadlift:
Same things really - Weight on the heels
Squeeze together shoulder blades

I have to say I don’t agree with the comments telling you to slow down your descent. You should be going as fast as possible on the descent AND ascent. The faster you go down, the faster you come up, you will make a better use of the stretch reflex, and get a better bounce out of the bottom. You will lift more weight this way.

And this IS the strength forum right?

Regarding stance width, whatever is comfortable is good. You can take an extremely wide, or narrow stance, and still squat huge weights. It’s all about personal preference, and what feels the strongest for you.

Find a video of a top level competitive powerlifter that descends at that speed. Dip grip and rip is all well and good from a mental standpoint, but the literature doesn’t agree. (read supertraining and science and practice of strength training)

I’m still not sure why you think descending slower would be better.

I agree there is a such thing as going too fast, when a lifter loses all tightness. But the OP seems to be able to remain tight.

Powerlifters don’t descend as fast because it’s impossible to do with the super tight equipment used. The best squatters I’ve seen all have a relatively fast descent though.

You’re performing your DL like a first pull of a clean.
Watch Bolton’s 971 DL at the end of this video…

A big DL takes advantage of the hip drive to move his shoulders behind the bar and shift the weight onto the heels. I routinely have to stop myself from falling backwards on light warm-up sets because I force my toes up with my weight on my heels.
Obviously your toes are going to be in contact with the ground on a heavier DL, but the principle is the same.
Also, when you drive under don’t be afraid to drive your shins into the bar, if your knee angle is over 90 degrees you’ll have no problems clearing the knees without having to shift your weight foreword.

Your squat problem is actually not a different problem.
The first thing you do is drift foreword onto your toes.
You’re torso quickly follows by flattening out into an impossible recovery position.

For the squats I would do work sets at 225 x 3 with 5 lb plates under your heels. Concentrating on getting your toes up on the concentric(they may not actually come off the ground).

For DL I would do cluster sets with 135, 225, 315 concentrating on driving under and through the heels(toes up). Take 5-10 sec rest in between and set up new every time to really learn the driving position. Once you feel comfortable with your weight on your heels you can do work sets of 315 x 3 or continue to do cluster sets working up to 365 and beyond.

Also, if your’e going to dip and rip, be aware that the drive under is what’s going to generate that large elastic and myotatic reflex and you’ve only got one chance to get it right with that style of descent.

This thread’s funny!!

[quote]Hanley wrote:
This thread’s funny!![/quote]

Are you learning much?

[quote]Modi wrote:
Hanley wrote:
This thread’s funny!!

Are you learning much?[/quote]

Yeah, I need to speed up my squat and lean forward more.

You pick up any tips?

lolz hanley…

[quote]Hanley wrote:
Modi wrote:
Hanley wrote:
This thread’s funny!!

Are you learning much?

Yeah, I need to speed up my squat and lean forward more.

You pick up any tips?[/quote]

Yup, but I learned something completely opposite of you…3 seconds on the decent, pause for a full second in the hole with your max weight on your shoulders, and then one second on the way up, regardless of how heavy it is.

I really like the paused part on the squats, I guess it primes your for pausing your bench later in the day.