New Ripped, Rugged, and Dense Routine

vuduchyld: First, changing the exercises every four weeks or so isn’t going to do anything to change the stimulus provided to a given muscle. To prevent stagnation and continued gains, you should changed the stress related variables periodically (load, TUT, density, rest periods, etc). I’ll elaborate on this in an article that should be published here at T-mag very soon.

Second, in regards to CNS fatigue, here is a section from our article to provide you with some insight:

Thanks for the reply! I’m particularly interested in this topic and in your article. I can’t wait to read it!

There is one thing I meant to inquire about earlier, but did not. I’m curious to know more about the goals of the trainees who you’ve been working with using this type of program. Is there a fairly wide variety of objectives being met? Are people having more or less success (relatively) with mass building, fat loss, strength/athleticism, or any other common goals?

Hey joel

about CNS fatigue

you said “cut back volume or frequency”

risking me being flamed as a dumbass for some reason,
wouldnt it be best to cut intesity first?

thanks

S-man

vuduchyld: The above 5x5 split is geared towards individuals who are dieting; check out my Ripped, Rugged, and Dense article in issue 214 (if you havn’t already) for my reasoning as to why I lean toward heavy training for individuals on calorie restricted diets. Having said that, the approach of decreasing the duration of workouts and increasing the frequency can and should be used for practically any training goal. You’d just have to change the setup of the workout. For instance, you can use this approach when training to gain muscle mass by simply increasing the volume of each training session by adding more sets and/or reps per set.

Glute: No, don’t lighten the load; intensity is a key part of the training phase you are currently conducting. Just reduce the frequency and/or volume. The quoted text was simply general recommendations for trainees in regards to knowing when they are overtrained. If you keep the sessions short and frequent, overtraining will most likely not be a concern, so you wont have to worry about that anyway.

Joel

G-S,

Ever think that this overlap is the reason for the lack of progress about which you were fretting last week? Instead of thinking with the mindset, “I’m doing X number of sets this week no matter what,” perhaps you should ask yourself, “Am I ready to train?” Honestly, if you’re training properly with challenging weight, there is no way in hell that you should be coming back to hit the same muscle group without a few days rest.

The volume-frequency-recovery relationship is not nearly as linear (for lack of a better term) as you seem to think.

Hey, thanks EC.

I don’t want certainly to sound like a stupid know-it-all.

I just don’t feel overtrained at all. my workouts are good. I am progressing in almost all of my lifts. and since I’ve been, except for 3 weeks of Mektdown I, going by powerlifting routines (albeit russian and not your famous westside) for the last 4 months I sure know when (and did)to take a day off or cut back a bit.

I do feal that more volume when cutting instead of more cardio is the way for me. if it doesnt work I will change it no doubt. by the way I am down almost one percent from last week.

thanks again for your attention and time

S-man

I’m not so sure I agree here. There are numerous profitable ways to hit a muscle group again with only 24-48 hours of rest. What I will say is that if you choose to do this, the training method should be substantially different from the method you just used. For example, if you hit chest on monday w/ 5x5, then you may want to try 10x2-3 on wednesday and 3x10 on friday. Motivation should serve as the basis for training again, not whatever someone said the proper training frequency to be. There also have been a number of studies conducted which show that training a muscle while still sore does not adversely effect metabolic recovery. Waiting for a muscle to “heal” before you train again is overrated. The object is to train as frequently as possible without overtraining the CNS. If you squated yesterday and today you feel motivated to squat, by all means, go squat. The thing to realize however is that this will not be possible unless you reduce the duration of your weight training sessions. In the long run you win by training muscle much more frequently and you still feel fresh and motivated! I remember when I was only training a muscle once weekly, but was performing much longer sessions- I felt like shit and didn’t really look forward to training. This would cause me to skip workouts, have unproductive training sessions, and therefore, I wasn’t making a whole lot of progress. Now, I’m training a muscle anywhere from 1.5-2 times weekly (meaning, sometimes i train every muscle twice, and sometimes I only train “some” muscles twice) and I feel better than ever. I havn’t been tempted to skip a workout in a long, long time.

I completely agree with you, Joel. However, I think that it’s important to recognize that it’s unlikely to expect such a scenario to be present for all of your lifts. There’s no doubt that frequent training sessions (both more per day and more per week) have proven valuable in various European protocols; I’m not questioning that.

I do, however, question the value of such a training style when one isn’t specializing on certain lifts, nor are they varying rep schemes throughout the week (as you alluded to above). Let’s consider G-S’ current split:

A: Power clean, squat, bench, (abs)
B: DL, Push press, calves(assistance) OH walk (assistance)
C: Chin-ups, front squats, GMs, tricep work(assistance)

There is the potential for him to be training on three or more consecutive days. Call me cynical, but does anyone else find the leg, lower back, and tricep burden here to be a little excessive? Personally, I think that if you’re progressing on such a scheme, you’re either…
a) Juiced to the gills
b) A complete newbie that is gaining CNS efficiency
c) Not really progressing because you were never training near your maximal originally
d) Lying
or e) A mutant.

Again, I’ll restate that I think that the original updated version you set forth is fantastic, but I also think that one’s enthusiasm to train can subconsciously convince one to ignore true physical status and attempt to find progress somewhere even if it doesn’t exist. I love to train. I’d train every day, three times per day if I could do so without hindering progress. Unfortunately, it doesn’t work that way with certain protocols and goals in mind.

Also, regarding why to cut volume or frequency instead of intensity, you should also consider endocrine status. You can say “excessive volume” or “excessive frequency,” but you cannot say “excessive intensity.” Simply put, if it was too intense, you would be able to lift it.

The word excessive had implications in terms of cortisol. Meanwhile, heavy loads are superior when it comes to serum testosterone levels. In Modern Trends, Poliquin points out how foolish it is to decrease the weight from session to session when an athlete doesn’t achieve a rep goal. Likewise, in the “Winning Formula,” JB alluded to the fact that the “load must be maintained.”

There’s not much value in cutting intensity just so that you can train longer and more frequently. Otherwise, the fat housewives at Curves (with their submax weights) would be the Ripped, Rugged, and Dense ones, eh?

Eric, we’re on the same page, bro. I just wanted to clarify that one statement (which you probably meant to apply directly to glute’s routine only) for others viewing the thread. Sometimes people get so caught up in prescriptions that they miss the big picture. “You can’t train legs again, it hasn’t been ‘X’ number of days!” Well, who the hell said that you need X number of days between training sessions? Nothing about weight training is so systematic. Just wanted to make sure people understood that and didn’t get lead astray (even though I know those weren’t your intentions).

Joel

Agreed, bro. I’m all for training more frequently if you’re up to it physically and mentally. This was definitely an individual case; sorry if it came across as a highjack.

Joel,
If, for whatever reason, one had to take off every third or fourth day,(instead of every fifth) would you recommend any changes to the program, such as adding 1 mor exercise to larger muscle groups?

Also, in your updated version, does the protocol of casually alternating A1 and A2 still apply?

TIA

Just in time…I’m looking for a change of pace as my motivation to hit the gym is fading and my strength has tapered off with the big lifts during the past 2 weeks. A week off might help me also. Yes, I’m one of those guys who hates taking time off.

Kong,

Yes, casually alternate back and forth. Sessions should range from 20-30 minutes.

If you would like to set up something specific to your schedule (if you needed to take off every 4th day or so), then just email me and I’ll be happy to assist you. I never charge, so dont worry about me hitting you with sales pitch; just shoot me an email.

J

'Scuse me EC

but

can I beg the differ?
a) I’m not juiced
b) not a newbie, actualy lifting for 6 years mainly bodybuilding style, except I havent benched heavy for a while and I never did power cleans, good mornings so I am making good gains on those. I do have my ego in check as I am experienced in that part and never go for weights I cant lift. this helps me alot.
C) not a mutant to my knowledge.
D) let’s assume I am not lying otherwise we are wasting our time.

Do you succumb to the notion that there is an absolute formula out there somewhere? and if I am not following this formula but still feeling good then I must be a lier?

I hope you not being close minded. that will be dissapointing.

I’m assuming you are not and you just REALY want to help a missguided bro.
I will give you credit and check myself very closely for the next days for any signs in overtraining/dropping gym intensity.

so if I do find I am overtrained/ not training intensly enough in the gym I will cut back to doing each exersize once a week and with more intensity.

thanks

S-man.

Joel,
Awesome update dude! Like everyone else, I think this is perfect timing. I am currently doing Anti-BB and I am loving it. I am definetely a big fan of shorter and more frequest workouts. I feel refreshed and not run-down when I leave the gym (well…except for on leg days, but I think that is warranted…haha). Anyways, you da man!

Thanks Joel! I’ll send you something today.

“So if I do find I am overtrained/ not training intensly [sic] enough in the gym I will cut back to doing each exersize once a week and with more intensity.”

AAARGH! Good God, man! There is such a thing as a HAPPY MEDIUM. Just because you train intensely on one exercise does NOT mean you need an entire week to recover. Likewise, just because you lower your intensity for an exercise does not mean you can come back and hit the same muscle group the next day. Are you following me?

My reasoning for questioning your ability to make progress on all these lifts simultaneously is based on personal experience, anecdotal evidence from other lifters, and knowledge of neurological and endocrinological factors. Very simply, squats, deads, and cleans are three of the most demanding exercises one can perform. I can’t say that I’ve ever met anyone who has done them on three consecutive days. Then again, I’ve never met anyone who cleaned in high heels!

BTW, if I was being narrowminded, I wouldn’t respond to your threads.

Hey eric.

I didnt say you were narrow-mined. I said maybe on that aspect you were.

let me calrify
I am never hitting anything the next day. you mean lower back/stabilizer/CNS hit day after day? thats fine. the earliest I repeat a workout is after 5 days. sometimes 6, as they are cycled. so resting more will mean? one week between each.
you said rest more! now you say don;t go too far… phew.
since two months ago I deadlifted 5 days a week according to tsatsuline’s “power to the people” I know what CNS fatigue and lower back fatigue is. believe me.

by the way I am not doing regular DLs but the compound version (see last week’s john roman article). I also don’t see hang power cleans as such a trouble for my LB as I do GMs with a higher weight by far.

don’t be so angry dude. it’s bad for your T and good for your Cortisol.
I do appreciate your help and advice here and in previous posts but allow me the privilege of a thought and an opinion of my own(even if you wont I’ll still have one)

Thanks

GS

Joel,

For those who train in the evenings, how would you plan your carb timing with this workout schedule?

When cutting, I like to keep my average daily carbs in the 150g range (about 20-25% of daily calories) ? shooting for about 200g on training days and 100g on off days. But, with a workout nearly every day that plan doesn?t fit too well.

With the New RR&D program, would it be best to consume most of my carbs after the workout (Surge post workout 80g and solid meal 1 hour later 80g) and then just protein & fat meals the rest of the day? This would be backward from the temporal nutrition guidelines to eat protein & carbs early in the day and protein & fat in the evenings.

Also, on the HITT days I would think it would be a good idea to include a half serving of Surge (another 40g of carbs) in the AM after completing the HITT session.