T Nation

New Plan for Sqaut

Hello let me start by saying i am 16 years old and i squat 385 one rep max i also power clean 305. i am not on steroids or any pro-hormones. I was talking to a running back that is transferring over from Cal to Fresno state.He told me for their squat work out they do 5 sets of 225 20 reps or tell failure,then they go run stairs. I am wondering if i should start to do this? I will post my average leg work out if asked upon.

a current routine would be a good place to start.
then if your goal is strength, which i’ll assume from this being the PL forum. i honestly doubt the effectiveness of this routine for improving a competition squat. that type of routine requires, and builds a shit-ton of conditioning.


High rep, high-volume squat work has not significantly improved my squat numbers. It just tires out my lower back. What are you currently doing for legs?

In general I’d recommend a westside, 5/3/1, smolov, and shieko program if you’re looking to improve your squat specifically. Smolov is squat-specific and will prevent most of your other numbers from improving while you’re on it. It is also very intense; make sure to eat and sleep a lot. Just google smolov squat routine. Shieko is less intense than smolov, but still very difficult but will have good improvements as well. Westside and 5/3/1 are customizable and allow more attention to be given to the upper body. I suggest you read about periodization if you don’t already know about it. Implement it into westside. 5/3/1 is $20 for the ebook and I am personally using this. I’ve put 10 pounds on all my lifts and 20 on my bench in 3 cycles, despite a 2-week lay-off due to an unrelated elbow injury.

Is that what they do at Cal? I wouldn’t model your training after Cal. It took me 3 months to take a former Cal athlete and make them stronger than they ever were in 3 years at Cal working with their strength coaches. I also know a track coach that isn’t happy with that Cal does to his former athletes. They go to school there and get weaker. Basically, their strength program blows.

Dont be that guy that changes up programs just because you hear about something new…you will never make any progress that way

Are you still making progress on your current routine? If so, why are you going to change it?

5 sets of 20. If you can do every rep as fast as possible with perfect form, then go for it. But since no one on earth could do that, you probably shouldnt either. What does that develop? This is a collegiate football team right?

How long does it take to do that many reps? probably close to a minute I would guess. An average football play last 8 seconds so, this isnt even good for conditioning.

I bet the coaches have their kids run timed miles too. This kind of programming is lazy and dangerous.

Thanks guys for the feed back, I tried this work out monday but only had time to get done with three sets of 20. The follwing day I did not feel very sore at all. My average leg work out is as follwed, depending what gym I’m at.
Legs at school.
Power clean
135-6 reps
185-6 reps
225-6 reps
255-9 to 6 reps
275-4 to 6 reps.
290 to 305-one rep max.

Squat
135 warm up
225+6
275+6
315+6
365+6 with help
395+6 with help
405 one rep with help

I will also do some dumbell power cleans and presss
and a couple sets of barbarik legs squats i think that’s what thier callled that’s my school work out.

[quote]B.F.S.31 wrote:
Thanks guys for the feed back, I tried this work out monday but only had time to get done with three sets of 20. The follwing day I did not feel very sore at all. My average leg work out is as follwed, depending what gym I’m at.
Legs at school.
Power clean
135-6 reps
185-6 reps
225-6 reps
255-9 to 6 reps
275-4 to 6 reps.
290 to 305-one rep max.

Squat
135 warm up
225+6
275+6
315+6
365+6 with help
395+6 with help
405 one rep with help

I will also do some dumbell power cleans and presss
and a couple sets of barbarik legs squats i think that’s what thier callled that’s my school work out. [/quote]

What the fuck is this “average workout” bullshit? There should be no such thing as an “average” workout, because you should be getting stronger each time.

My current routine is working great! I don’t plan on changeing anything major but always open to advice. I feel I can sqaut alot more but my back can’t handle more weight and my knees buckle. I got a letter from the Cal bears they invited me to thier full contact camp this summer but I no very little to nothing about thier weight program. Our weight lifting program chould not get any better for the high school level; but I’m always going above and beyond.

When I say average workout some days I lift slighly less reps or max wise due the fact I have speed trainig twice a week and zero per at 6am too so I get tired and my workouts show it.

Why are you doing all sets of 6, then trying a 1RM afterwards on squats? If you want to max, then focus on the max. If you want to do working sets and get volume, then do working sets and get volume. Trying to do both in the same workout isn’t a great idea.

I’d power clean after you squat. Squat when you’re less tired and have more strength. Power cleans are more about speed/technique, so do those second. If you can be fast/explosive when you’re tired, then that’s a huge edge in games.

Is your main goal here to get bigger, faster, or stronger?

For the lower back holding back your squat, SLDL from a deficit are awesome. You can do them in the 5-8 rep range.

Knees buckling in is usually one of two:

  1. Activation: you’re not driving them out the whole time
  2. Hamstring weakness: knees coming in lets you use your quads more

[quote]B.F.S.31 wrote:
When I say average workout some days I lift slighly less reps or max wise due the fact I have speed trainig twice a week and zero per at 6am too so I get tired and my workouts show it.[/quote]

Kid, my point is that the very fact that you have an “average” workout, means you are NOT increasing the weights on a regular basis, which means you are doing something seriously wrong…most likely not eating enough.

If you had said “my most recent workout” that would’ve been a totally different story.

[quote]Wild_Iron_Gym wrote:
I’d power clean after you squat. Squat when you’re less tired and have more strength. Power cleans are more about speed/technique, so do those second. If you can be fast/explosive when you’re tired, then that’s a huge edge in games. [/quote]

While the rest of your post has good advice, I’d recommend against this. Doing a highly technical and explosive movement after exhausting the squatting musculature is exactly what I did the summer before my first year of college. My form and intensity on power cleans suffered and I pulled my lower back as a result. I could not pick up anything over 35 pounds for months. Do power cleans before squats.

I’m always going up. I’ve put on 27 pounds since dec and my diet is near perfect. I’m NOT a body bulider I’m a athliete that has to balance weightlifting with other forms of training like a hour of very strainuios speed training on top of a day of weightlifting. I’m one of the stongest 10th graders in the state I have a weight lifting comp for my school next week and plain on beating jr and cr getting 1st place I’ll let u no what happens. My power clean is perfect. I just need some GOOD advice for some one who knows what thier talking about, am I doing the right number or reps and sets to get the most out of my workout? My golas are to get bigger faster and stronger

Yess I always clean before I squat. I can’t walk after I sqat.

[quote]TisDrew wrote:

[quote]Wild_Iron_Gym wrote:
I’d power clean after you squat. Squat when you’re less tired and have more strength. Power cleans are more about speed/technique, so do those second. If you can be fast/explosive when you’re tired, then that’s a huge edge in games. [/quote]

While the rest of your post has good advice, I’d recommend against this. Doing a highly technical and explosive movement after exhausting the squatting musculature is exactly what I did the summer before my first year of college. My form and intensity on power cleans suffered and I pulled my lower back as a result. I could not pick up anything over 35 pounds for months. Do power cleans before squats.[/quote]

What about the stories of olympic lifters that try a weight 20+ times in the same workout before they get it? They have to be fatigued by that point. I don’t think he needs to max on the power cleans. If he keeps the weight reasonable, there shouldn’t be any danger.

If you have to lower the weight significantly by putting it after, then what’s the point? What he’s doing right now is safer, with higher weights. Also, this:

[quote]B.F.S.31 wrote:
Yess I always clean before I squat. I can’t walk after I sqat.[/quote]

[quote]Wild_Iron_Gym wrote:

[quote]TisDrew wrote:

[quote]Wild_Iron_Gym wrote:
I’d power clean after you squat. Squat when you’re less tired and have more strength. Power cleans are more about speed/technique, so do those second. If you can be fast/explosive when you’re tired, then that’s a huge edge in games. [/quote]

While the rest of your post has good advice, I’d recommend against this. Doing a highly technical and explosive movement after exhausting the squatting musculature is exactly what I did the summer before my first year of college. My form and intensity on power cleans suffered and I pulled my lower back as a result. I could not pick up anything over 35 pounds for months. Do power cleans before squats.[/quote]

What about the stories of olympic lifters that try a weight 20+ times in the same workout before they get it? They have to be fatigued by that point. I don’t think he needs to max on the power cleans. If he keeps the weight reasonable, there shouldn’t be any danger.
[/quote]

Aw c’mon dude. Look at that dudes avatar. It’s clear he has tons of lifting experience.

[quote]hungry4more wrote:

[quote]B.F.S.31 wrote:
When I say average workout some days I lift slighly less reps or max wise due the fact I have speed trainig twice a week and zero per at 6am too so I get tired and my workouts show it.[/quote]

Kid, my point is that the very fact that you have an “average” workout, means you are NOT increasing the weights on a regular basis, which means you are doing something seriously wrong…most likely not eating enough.

If you had said “my most recent workout” that would’ve been a totally different story. [/quote]

no you just miss understood me

[quote]TisDrew wrote:
High rep, high-volume squat work has not significantly improved my squat numbers. It just tires out my lower back. What are you currently doing for legs?

In general I’d recommend a westside, 5/3/1, smolov, and shieko program if you’re looking to improve your squat specifically. Smolov is squat-specific and will prevent most of your other numbers from improving while you’re on it. It is also very intense; make sure to eat and sleep a lot. Just google smolov squat routine. Shieko is less intense than smolov, but still very difficult but will have good improvements as well. Westside and 5/3/1 are customizable and allow more attention to be given to the upper body. I suggest you read about periodization if you don’t already know about it. Implement it into westside. 5/3/1 is $20 for the ebook and I am personally using this. I’ve put 10 pounds on all my lifts and 20 on my bench in 3 cycles, despite a 2-week lay-off due to an unrelated elbow injury.[/quote]

What were you doing for upper body when you ran Smolov? And which phase? You didn’t get any carry over on deads? I find that a little surprising.