T Nation

New on TRT, Having a Hard Time


#1

Hi, I will be 50 tomorrow, Army vet, belly fat, over past 6 years I lost interest in racing cars, hard to lose weight, easily had muscle sprains or pain, I had a physical and Dr called me and said my testosterone level was 96, no other information(I didn’t even request the test). He prescribed 400mg Testosterone c injected every 2 weeks. First 2 weeks I felt good, then went downhill from there, I have injected the 400mg now the 1st, middle and End of Sept, and a few days ago the 4th dose. I never had sex issues, but had low desire and shrinkage.

Within first week I noticed desire came back x10 and no more shrinkage. After 4 weeks skin is oily, muscles seem to recover better. But after 2 weeks, my energy went to 0, I had a few times where I had anxiety for no reason(feeling of death for no reason)water retention, I did notice one testicle was a bit bigger than other for years and it almost immediately went back to same size as other once I started TRT.

I have to pay 100% out of pocket after 4th Dr visit, but I couldn’t handle the horrible feeling and total lack of energy. My regular Dr was off so I saw a PA, she kept saying you must be pre diabetic, thyroids, sleep apnea, could be depression. I told her, look at my labs, diabetic(no), thyroids(fine), I rarely even snore, never wake up gasping for air, so I told her no, I’m not paying for a sleep study. I don’t know any lab results yet, will ask Dr if I can get copy.

Gets tough when I have to pay %100 of each visit. I had to basically beg the Dr to check my estrogen level, she still wanted to check T level, even though I just injected 2 days before.I will find out my Estrogen level Monday. So now, I know by reading all the great information here, I should be injecting 200mg every week rather than 400mg every 2 weeks.

And how do I ask Dr for HCG, will find out tomorrow if I need estrogen blocker which I am sure I am high. I also found that online site you can do labs locally for much cheaper, so hopefully Dr will be OK with that. Any input is greatly appreciated.


#2

You were doomed. 400mgs is a lot. And it is crazy to be injecting that much in one shot. You should be injecting 100mgs twice a week. And that probably is too much even then. Your testosterone is way to high as soon as you get the shot (oily skin). Your body converts the extra to Estrogen. By week two your testosterone levels might be about right, but your Estrogen is crazy high. You should feel terrible. And yes you likely do have thyroid issues

Post all the test results you have so far.

You need to read the stickies at the top of this forum. Get educated as best you can and yes the guys here will help you. Try to do your part and this will go well

https://forums.t-nation.com/t/about-the-t-replacement-category/38/3?source_topic_id=222554

#3

So after being super frustrated, gained 18 pounds water weight, sick feeling, emotional, anxiety, i kept calling Dr office to get my results from estogen test, paclab had me at 137!!!, i think max norm i seen on report was like 38. Dr really didnt want to prescribe me Anastrozole, but he did. Would .25 be enough to take me down to a normal area?


#4

How often are you supposed to take .25mg


#5

A few things -

First - your dose of 400 mg every other week is insane. That’s borderline bodybuilding dose - plus taking that high at once will only lead to sides (bloating, anxiety, etc).

100mg / week is a good place to start.

Next - your doctor is a total ass and doesn’t understand any of this. It’s a shame you had to beg her to check Estrogen. And by the way - you only checked Total Estrogen - not estradiol- which is the one that is linked to the aromatization of testosterone. So your metric of having Estrogen lower (actually 20-30 is a good range) is correct but for the wrong type of estrogen. There is a link to total E and Estradiol and I’m sure yours is elevated but we can’t be sure how much.

You need to get a new doc who can help or perhaps to to a TRT clinic. If it were me - I would try to get some Arimidex and start off at .25mg EOD and see how you feel. If you cannot get a script because of the lame ass doctors that don’t understand, you will need to go to some online peptide companies. Lots of them out there and generally have legit products.

Regardless - lower the T amounts on your next pin date and then pin more frequently (100mg Every week) or you can switch to gels to provide more consistent levels.


#6

Please read the stickies found here: About the T Replacement Category

  • advice for new guys - need more info about you
  • things that damage your hormones
  • protocol for injections
  • finding a TRT doc

Your doc is an idiot. You have days of reading to do and you cannot be passive with your hormone care.

Suggested protocol:

  • self inject 50mg T cypionate twice a week
  • oral 0.5mg anastrozole at time of injections
  • 250iu hCG SC EOD at time of T injections

Need these labs posted here with lab ranges:
TT
FT
E2
AST/ALT
fasting glucose
fasting cholesterol
TSH
fT3
fT4 please not T3, T4
CBC
hematocrit
CRP
homocysteine

If you have not been using iodized salt, your thyroid function can be a mess. You can check overall thyroid function by checking your oral body temperatures as per the thyroid basics sticky. Thyroid controls energy levels via fT3 hormone as part of the body’s temperature control loop. Low temperatures mean there is a problem.

You may have to take your wallet outside of the VA system of ignorance and apathy.


#7

He didnt know, I told him .25 every 2 days


#8

I already feel it is working, has been about 20 hours since i took first one. No more feelings of death and axiety.


#9

.For the dose you are on I would guess you need 4 of those pills twice a week. Oh hell you are just taking far to much testosterone. Switch to the standard protocol

self inject 50mg T cypionate twice a week
oral 0.5mg anastrozole at time of injections
250iu hCG SC EOD at time of T injections

No one is going to care that your proscription lasts twice as long. If you can not get another doctor, do the standard protocol and buy your own blood test in 4 weeks. You will need a full set of labs. They should do that at lest once. If you need to stretch it a bit but want your testosterone and e2 right http://www.privatemdlabs.com/lab_tests.php?view=all&show=1032&category=14&partnerid=S61&search=#1032

That is only $67 but that is just a stop gap. You need a full set of labs to start. If you really cant get anyone to do that

http://www.privatemdlabs.com/lab_tests.php?view=all&show=1033&category=14&partnerid=S61&search=#1033

If those guys are not near you there are others


#10

High estrogen sucks. When mine went up a little bit it was funny finding myself crying at sad songs. Now I understand that Jewish prayer, thanking God I am not a woman


#11

I felt bad anxiety, wanted to break things(i never did though), felt sick,
tired, dizzy, 25 pounds of water in body( legs swelled face), flat affect,
felt like crying, hot flashes, no desire for sex or even leaving house, had
to take off from work, bp went up(i never have bad bp) pulse went way up.
Worst experience in my life. I told Dr i wanted to do 50mg 2x per week, he
refused to even think about HCG, he said they would take his license. Do
you think i should just stay with .25 every 2 days or take one more today
after 24 hours to get level down more? I really appreciate your help on
this, i was desperate.


#12

Tomarrow will be 7 days since my last 400mg injection. I was unsure with such high estrogen level if .25 yesterday was enough to get me even close to the good spot, being i was over 100 too high on estrogen.


#13

No one would take his license, it is an off label use of HCG but a very common one. If you can not get a new doctor, there are places on line that will sell you HCG. Is your doctor letting you self inject? Take two .25 anastrozole the same day you inject. You do not need to take them every other day. Estrogen takes a while to clear out so you are still high.

Anastrozole prevents conversion of testosterone to estrogen. What has already been produced, it has no effect on. It will clear out, give it time. Taking your anastrozole now keeps you from producing too much more.


#14

He lets me self inject, i dont even know when i should start the 50mg 2x week, was thinking wait until end of next week. You think i should take another .25 anastrozole today(last one was 7pm last night)


#15

Start at the end of your second week. Taking .25 anastrozole every other day this week might be a good idea. I have zero experience working with such an over dose. The guys in Pharma do qualities like you just did. But they only do 6 week cycles


#16

Ok, thanks :slight_smile: my mother has low T too, so i may see her Dr. Mine knows nothing really about it.


#17

The objective is modulation of FT–>E2 to get an optimal level. It is not an on-off thing.

Verne, thanks for doing some of the lifting!


#18

I am doing better today, no feelings of death, lost 15 pounds water weight. Actually have times I am full of energy today and went out of house to get haircut. Last 2 nights i slept about 3 hours, then woke up sweating, stayed up about 2 hours, then slept great. Was worst experience in my life, people who read this need to take warning, do it right, research well before just doing what Dr says. I am sort of hyper now, but sleepy at same time, my body had a war going on inside it, will take a bit to be well again. I am pretty sure my estrogen level was in the 170s by Tue, because i had lab done friday and had just injected 400mg of Tetosterone the night before, so as it built up by Tue, my level had to be above the labcorp 137.


#19

My knowledge is rudimentary but the guys here helped me a lot, so where I can I try. What is sad is that in such a short time, I know more than a lot of doctors do. And I know very little


#20

My labcorp test at 137 was over 100 higher than male range. I am still unsure if .25 is enough right now every other day. Would daily be better for about 7 days or overkill. I just want to get better. I really appreciate all your support.