T Nation

New on Axiron TRT Labs in...

T Replacement
#1

OK, 1st thing is that I read the sticky by KSman on labs/blood work a week after being on 30mg of T (Axiron, underarm liquid).

30 year old male, 5’8" 170 lbs BF 15%, waist 32.

I have been on Axiron for exactly one week.

Because, I did not know what labs needed to be done, I only went by what my urologist ordered.

TT: 548 (241 - 827 ng/dL) Though in the higher middle and not hypo-gonadal but I still was able to convince my Dr. to prescribe TRT. I would like to use it in cycles (and reach close to 1050 ng/dL), before my body shuts down it’s own T production.

Prolactin: 5.3 (2.0 - 18.0 ng/mL) To this day i’m not sure what makes this test important, even after googlin.

PSA: 0.7 (< or = 4.0 ng/mL)

Lipid Profile:

Total Cholesterol: 168 (125 - 200 mg/dL)
HDL: 45 (> or = 40 mg/dL)
Triglycerides: 106 (<150 mg/dL)
LDL: 102 (<130 mg/dL)

Though, all my lipid #'s are in range, I’ve read that the optimal #'s would be 60/60/60 HDL/Triglycerides/LDL.

Chol/HDL Ratio: 3.7 (< or + 5.0)

CBC

WBC: 6.3 (3.8 - 10.8 Thousand/uL)
RBC 5.54 (4.20 - 5.80 Million/uL)
Hemoglobin: 16.7 (13.2 - 17.1 g/dL)
Hematocrit: 49.1% (38.5 - 50.0%)
MCV: 88.6 (80.0-100.0fL)
MCH: 30.2 (27.0 -33.0 pg)
MCHC: 34.0 (32.0 -36.0 g/dL)
RDW: 12.8 (11.0 -15.0%)
Platelet Count: 181 (140 - 400 Thousand/uL)
Absolute neutrophils: 3383 (1500 - 7800 cells/uL)
Absolute lymphocytes 2539 (830 3900 cells/uL)
Absolute monocytes: 252 (200 - 950 cells/uL)
Absolute eosinophils: 107 (15 - 500 cells/uL)
Absolute basophils: 19 ( 0 -200 cells/uL)
neutrophils: 53.7%
lymphocytes: 40.3%
monocytes: 4.0%
eosinophils: 1.7%
basophils: 0.3%

BUN: 19 (7 - 25mg/dL)
Creatinine: 1.05 mg/dL
Sodium: 141 (135 -146 mmol/L)
Potassium: 4.5 (3.5 - 5.3 mmol/L)
Chloride: 102 (98 - 110 mmol/L)
Carbon Dioxide: 26 (21 - 33mmol/L)
Calcium: 9.6 (8.6 -10.2 mg/dL)

After, one week on Axiron, I read TSman’s sticky and went back to the Dr. and asked for my E2 (Estradiol) and FSH/LH.

My results came in today:

Estradiol (E2): 40 (13 -54 pg/mL) (Too me this is too high and I think I need AI A-dex)

FSH: 1.1 (1.6 -8.0 mIU/mL) (This value is out of range LOW and I don’t know what this means)

LH: 1.9 (1.5 -9.3 mIU/mL)

Hepatic Function Panel below

Protein Total: 7.1 (6.2 - 8.3 g/dL)
Albumin: 4.3 (2.6 -5.1 g/dL)
Globulin 2.8 (2.1 - 3.7 g/dL)
Albumin/Globulin Ratio: 1.5 (1.0 -2.1)
Bilirubin Total: 0.7 (0.2 -1.2 mg/dL)
Alkaline Phosphatase: 63 (40 - 115 U/L)
AST: 24 (10 - 40 U/L)
ALT: 27 (9 - 60 U/L)

Though, I made have had some labs not needed, keep in mind I had not read sticky 1st.

My urologist refuse to scribe me AI Adex and sent me to an endocrinologist.

Any feedback is appreciated.

Edit: Urologist did not know what lab to order to measure DHT.

I have purchased two Anti-DHT shampoos (though I have not used them yet).

My concern is that after I get on AI my DHT will be higher and could risk hair loss.

#2

Y?

#3

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
Y?[/quote]
Y what? I lost you.

My primary concern is FSH level is below normal and my E2 is 40 and I would like to lower that via AI Adex. Not too mention I don’t know how to interpret the FSH low # and E2 high #, even after reading stickies, posts and other forums. At this point i’m all googled out and would love some solid advice.

I don’t want to get gynecomastia and don’t want higher T levels to be canceled out by high E2. Nor do I want what E2 has to offer.

The last statement on DHT is because I have done countless reading/googlin and this seems to be a concern for those that get on AI.

#4

[quote]LongTimeLurker wrote:

TT: 548 (241 - 827 ng/dL) Though in the higher middle and not hypo-gonadal but I still was able to convince my Dr. to prescribe TRT. I would like to use it in cycles (and reach close to 1050 ng/dL), before my body shuts down it’s own T production.

[/quote]

This…

Is one of the most retarded things I have ever read on this board. You are not hypgonodal so why are you taking TRT doses of testosterone? Stop being a pussy and just do some real steroids.

Your doctor should be brought forward to his medical board for being such a dipshit to prescribe this to you.

#5

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:

[quote]LongTimeLurker wrote:

TT: 548 (241 - 827 ng/dL) Though in the higher middle and not hypo-gonadal but I still was able to convince my Dr. to prescribe TRT. I would like to use it in cycles (and reach close to 1050 ng/dL), before my body shuts down it’s own T production.

[/quote]

This…

Is one of the most retarded things I have ever read on this board. You are not hypgonodal so why are you taking TRT doses of testosterone? Stop being a pussy and just do some real steroids.

Your doctor should be brought forward to his medical board for being such a dipshit to prescribe this to you.[/quote]

OK, you got me!

I am being a pussy and i’m afraid and refuse to take “real steroids”. Not to mention, I’m also a pussy for being concerned of picking up a a felony and loose my current professional licence that I have.

I pussily figured if I can get a legal script AAS I would be ok with that. Not too mention, I only pay $25 a month for it.

Is it possible you can just accept my being honest about being a pussy for not taking “real steroids” and offer me your expert feedback on this topic. You are a level 4 with thousands of posts. I know you must have a wealth of info on this topic.

#6

Steroids are a Schedule III controlled substance, so its not a felony its a misdemeanor…having a script from a rogue doctor does not make you impervious to prosecution…so my statement stands

You are risking your health here for a little top off of testosterone that isnt going to do JACK SHIT…your entire basis for wanting to do this has absolutely no basis in reality…you will not see a difference from taking your levels from 500 to 1000, and are only inducing sides…

The reason your FSH and LH are low is due to HPTA feedback…your body sense you have more T than you need so it is shutting down the signals from the pituitary to tell you to make more T. When you ‘cycle off yo’ this may not recover (again why this is stupid).

Taking an AI does not make your T start converting to DHT. And besides, DHT isn’t bad for you (you need it for libido).

You are playing with fire with no clue how to use matches, and you are going to get burnt. I personally don’t give a shit, but don’t say I didn’t try to warn you.

#7

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
Steroids are a Schedule III controlled substance, so its not a felony its a misdemeanor…having a script from a rogue doctor does not make you impervious to prosecution…so my statement stands

You are risking your health here for a little top off of testosterone that isnt going to do JACK SHIT…your entire basis for wanting to do this has absolutely no basis in reality…you will not see a difference from taking your levels from 500 to 1000, and are only inducing sides…

You are playing with fire with no clue how to use matches, and you are going to get burnt. I personally don’t give a shit, but don’t say I didn’t try to warn you.[/quote]

Thanx for honest reply. Even a misdemeanor will cause me to loose licence/job. For, if I got pulled over by cops and had my Axiron on me and had script the cop is not going to question my T levels or my doc. Plus, if someone (legal advice) told me I could be charge with misdemeanor I would stop ASAP. AFAIC, I asked my doc for script, he did labs and agreed. How could I be charged? If anything he is the one that could be questioned. But, even that if I go beyond highest T levels he would pull the script from me.

Please, school me a little more (I don’t care about getting flamed just want honest truth from those that know).

How can I risk my health if I just want to reach optimal T levels? Wouldn’t I be risking my health if I reached say 1500 or higher T levels? If I reach say 1050 T level that would risk my health?

If I am “playing with fire with no clue how to use matches” then that is exactly why i’m here and need you guys even more.

Bottom line, I’ve read tons of posts from others that have been on TRT and have reported getting “real steroid” pumps at the gym. Some have even said they prefer it (though, I did not provide link).

Right now I have want to improve my strength and get bigger (not adipose tissue but myo type tissue.)

I can bench press 225lbs 4 times and 1RM is 245lbs. I’m not happy with those results and want more.

Are you saying that if I’m able to double my T it won’t help myofibrillarly or sarcoplasmic?

If that’s the case I should stop TRT?

What is my worst case scenario that can happen to my health? You, mentioned you are warning me but please mention more details. Like what will happen?

Gynecomastia or the like that is reversible via surgery or non-reversible?

Also, I only wanted to use it in 3-6 month cycle and stop for 1/2 year or more.

If you where in my shoes and refused to do “real steroids” but could get a script for TRT what would you do?

Please advice.

Edit:

Just reread what you said:

This is a very valid point and actually my Dr. warned me about that. He said, I could loose my sperm count down the line and thus have trouble the day I want kids.

I admit I took the chance anyways. Will TRT mess up my T levels when I cycle off? In other words, I innocently thought that when I stop my body would go back to it’s 550 T levels. Or is that not the case?

Am I too late if I stop now? In other words, if I stop after like 3 months are my T levels going to fall under 500 and never come back up on its on?

If that’s the case I will stop ASAP!

#8

Side effects of exogenous testosterone:
-Gyno
-Blood Pressure
-Liver
-Estrogen symptoms
-Prostate Cancer
-Aggression (debatable)
-Infertility
-Damaged HPTA

Basically anything that is associated with actual steroids MAY be realized by TRT as well–that is why it is a last ditch option for us. We are not on TRT here just because it will give us a wicked pump in the gym. It doesn’t.

So you are risking all this for very little return…at least with real high dose AAS, the returns are not disputable.

If you want to get stronger and look better naked, get your diet and training in order. With TT levels that you had previously and no symptoms indicating hormone disorders, you should have no trouble blasting through 225x4 on the bench…the fact that you think you need juice to bust through such a low plateau leads me to think you are mentally weak and do not push yourself very hard.

You are risking damaging your HPTA to the point where you HAVE to be on TRT for the rest of your life–no cycling off, no stopping, but FOREVER…think about that…if the rewards are worth it to you, knock yourself out…

#9

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
Side effects of exogenous testosterone:
-Gyno
-Blood Pressure
-Liver
-Estrogen symptoms
-Prostate Cancer
-Aggression (debatable)
-Infertility
-Damaged HPTA

Basically anything that is associated with actual steroids MAY be realized by TRT as well–that is why it is a last ditch option for us. We are not on TRT here just because it will give us a wicked pump in the gym. It doesn’t.

So you are risking all this for very little return…at least with real high dose AAS, the returns are not disputable.

If you want to get stronger and look better naked, get your diet and training in order. With TT levels that you had previously and no symptoms indicating hormone disorders, you should have no trouble blasting through 225x4 on the bench…the fact that you think you need juice to bust through such a low plateau leads me to think you are mentally weak and do not push yourself very hard.

You are risking damaging your HPTA to the point where you HAVE to be on TRT for the rest of your life–no cycling off, no stopping, but FOREVER…think about that…if the rewards are worth it to you, knock yourself out…[/quote]

My Friend, you have convinced me. I will stop and no longer take TRT.

You are 100% correct, the risks are too great.

Thank you!

I just hope I have not done irreversible damage, from only one week of daily 30mg.

edit: Just wondering out of curiosity, those that actually take real high dose AAS what are there T levels? I would imagine it would be like 2000.

#10

there is a steriod forum on this board I believe for that.

#11

Cranky bunch, aren’t we?

Balla doesn’t much like the muscle boys who wander into this forum, especially if they don’t take their T straight-up and thru a needle like he does. But he is right, that you aren’t doing yourself any favors by going part way. You are only shutting down the natural T production that you have.

If your goal is to raise lab numbers and performance, there are other forums that would be more appropriate. In this one, we’re just trying to get our health back to normal.

#12

[quote]dooright wrote:
Cranky bunch, aren’t we?

Balla doesn’t much like the muscle boys who wander into this forum, especially if they don’t take their T straight-up and thru a needle like he does. But he is right, that you aren’t doing yourself any favors by going part way. You are only shutting down the natural T production that you have.

If your goal is to raise lab numbers and performance, there are other forums that would be more appropriate. In this one, we’re just trying to get our health back to normal.

[/quote]
Wow! What a cordial and straight to the point reply. Clear and concise!

Thank you.

In such few words you summed it all up.