[quote]Dfresh wrote:
This is really stupid but I find it interesting… After a night of hard-core drinking my abs look better the next day. Incentive! haha[/quote]
If I learned anything in college, it’s that projectile vomiting is a great core workout.
[quote]David Barr wrote:
Why are we so concerned about transient T levels? I’m not trying to be a jerk but we need a little perspective.
Ethanol (a.k.a. “alcohol”) directly inhibits muscle growth.
Any transient increase in test will induce negative feedback, and we’ll have lower T levels.[/quote]
The only problem is that
1.) Testosterone isn’t regulated by a simple negative feedback mechanism.
2.) Alcohol may or may not alter testosterone metabolism via simply physiological pathways. As pointed out, the mechanism for the increase in testosterone production may be entirely neural (since testosterone synthesis regulation is partly neural in nature).
Any negative feedback mechanism in the brain compensating for the pharmacological effects of ethanol the next day (such as downregulation of GABA production) may not counteract ethanol’s testosterone boosting effects, which may occur as a result of the rewarding EXPERIENCE of alcohol consumption, which would involve parts of the brain not subject to the same regulatory mechanisms that become “active” upon ethanol rebound.
An example of this would be the limbic system, and the rewarding, destressing effects of alcohol may last for days.
Synthesis is governed by a variety of stimuli, many of which are social in their nature.
[quote]Synthesize wrote:
Any negative feedback mechanism in the brain compensating for the pharmacological effects of ethanol the next day (such as downregulation of GABA production) may not counteract ethanol’s testosterone boosting effects, which may occur as a result of the rewarding EXPERIENCE of alcohol consumption,
[/quote]
This is a point lost on most. Humans are not test tubes. We have emotions, and a psyche or “mind.” Our “minds” play a huge role in hormonal modulation.
When my favorite sports team loses, no physical substance has entered my body. Yet my testosterone levels fall. Whatever it is we refer to as the “mind” does this.
People who sit around worrying all day haver higher cortisol and lower testosterone levels. Again, there’s nothing external causing this. It’s coming from the “mind.”
We all (at least should) recognize that the mind can affect hormone levels. So when people say, “Alcohol lowers testosterone!” without looking at the total pictures, I just shake my head. What if a drink or two relaxes a person. Might that not play a role in testosterone levels?
Again, people overlook this. It’s much easier to just say: “Alcohol is bad!”
Now I am not saying a person should go drink a six pack every night. But “Alcohol lowers T, period” is much too unrefined for my tastes.
[quote]CaliforniaLaw wrote:
When my favorite sports team loses, no physical substance has entered my body. Yet my testosterone levels fall.[/quote]
Do you get blood work done before and after the game? How would you know this?
He knows cause it’s been studied.
Athletes who win get high test levels and does who loose see their test drop.
Same goes for the fans of teams that win or lose.
Pretty cool.
AlexH
[quote]Dandalex wrote:
He knows cause it’s been studied.
Athletes who win get high test levels and does who loose see their test drop.
Same goes for the fans of teams that win or lose.
Pretty cool.
AlexH[/quote]
Short term or long term? I only ask because football (soccer) hooliganism often occurs after a loss, and if you’ve ever seen these guys in action, “low T-count” doesn’t spring to mind…
Its short term as with most hormonal changes vs those related to aging.
More importantly, one should stop associating aggression, sociopathic or unlawfull behaviour with high testosterone.
The idea of the high test Clint Eastwood type so popularized on T-Nation and more particularly in TC’s delightful essays is more a concept of what manliness is in one cool word rather than being an accurate representation of what high or low testosterone individuals do.
Moreover, one should not associate a behaviour to 1 variable such as testosterone when there are probably 20 more important factors relating to hooligan behaviour for example.
AlexH
[quote]Dandalex wrote:
More importantly, one should stop associating aggression, sociopathic or unlawfull behaviour with high testosterone.[/quote]
We’d need to segregate based on type of crime. Pedophiles, e.g., generally have lower levels of testosterone:
http://www.springerlink.com/content/km764h022130u3x8/
Others have linked other types of crimes to higher testosterone levels:
http://www.autismwebsite.com/crimetimes/95c/w95cp4.htm
Or not:
http://www.photius.com/feminocracy/testosterone.html
Heh.
[quote]David Barr wrote:
Why are we so concerned about transient T levels? I’m not trying to be a jerk but we need a little perspective.
So what’s the point of taking Alpha Male? Seriously?
Seeing a hot chic raises test levels
Alcohol makes all chics look hot
Therefore alcohol can raise test levels
But not in a lab unless the lab assistant is a chic
And not in a rat or a monkey coz the beer goggles fall off their heads
And not in quantities that would have a man puking in the gutter
[quote]Magarhe wrote:
Seeing a hot chic raises test levels
Alcohol makes all chics look hot
Therefore alcohol can raise test levels
But not in a lab unless the lab assistant is a chic
And not in a rat or a monkey coz the beer goggles fall off their heads
And not in quantities that would have a man puking in the gutter
[/quote]
ahh, finally, a sober piece of reasoning on this here forum…
Excellent post. I’ll be looking into this shortly.
BTW-I don’t want anyone to forget that alcohol directly inhibits protein synthesis. This critical point gets overlooked A LOT.
[quote]Synthesize wrote:
The only problem is that
1.) Testosterone isn’t regulated by a simple negative feedback mechanism.
2.) Alcohol may or may not alter testosterone metabolism via simply physiological pathways. As pointed out, the mechanism for the increase in testosterone production may be entirely neural (since testosterone synthesis regulation is partly neural in nature).[/quote]
Another excellent post.
This thread has become quite constructive. Thanks to the OP.
[quote]CaliforniaLaw wrote:
This is a point lost on most. Humans are not test tubes. We have emotions, and a psyche or “mind.” Our “minds” play a huge role in hormonal modulation.
When my favorite sports team loses, no physical substance has entered my body. Yet my testosterone levels fall. Whatever it is we refer to as the “mind” does this.[/quote]
Thought this would go well here
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,22046556-2,00.html
Study finds alcohol doesn’t kill off brain cells
July 10, 2007 12:00am
NEW research, to be revealed at a conference of some of the world’s top neuroscientists in Cairns today, has found alcohol does not kill off brain cells as always thought.
For years imbibers have been told a big night on the drink wipes out entire sections of human brain cell function with much the same destructive equivalent as a napalm bombing strike.
According to Queensland Brain Institute director Professor Perry Bartlett, this is not true.
There is no evidence drinking alcohol leads directly to the death of brain cells, he said.
“Some of the best studies, done in Italy, show a bottle of wine a night can reduce the risk of dementia in old age,” Professor Bartlett said.
In moderation, alcohol has positive benefits for blood vessel health and stroke prevention. And, as an added bonus, new brain cells are generated every day of our lives.
Research by Professor Bartlett and his team has found we all have an inbuilt repair kit replenishing the more than 100 billion cells - or neurons - in our brain.
[quote]David Barr wrote:
BTW-I don’t want anyone to forget that alcohol directly inhibits protein synthesis. This critical point gets overlooked A LOT.[/quote]
Alcohol is generally “bad.” I think most would agree on that. My main point was that whether alcohol is bad in any specific situation depends on a lot of factors. If a glass of wine helps some super-wired dude wind down and get some sleep, I’d say it’s “good” for him.
I smoke an occasional cigar. Cigars are not “good” for me. Yet they relax me - a lot. So on balance, it’s a good choice for me. The good outweighs the bad. I would not go around telling people to light up, though.
I think this is a really good thread. I think it really comes down to the fact that everything in the body has such a synergistic effect. There are obviously some “bad” substances that are just simply toxic. But other than that, anything that isn’t considering the whole picture is missing the boat.
Like marijuana. Generally not a substance that is going to have positive effects on the body. But what about the stressed out executive who smokes a little before going to bed? Obviously stress is linked to cortisol, so that could have a positive effect. On others it might be negative.
So I think what it comes down to is: do the research, look at the studies, but most importantly, monitor how a given element (be that a training method, supplement or type of food) effects you as an individual.
Good point about “sameness.” I think the problem is that many people never get any semblance of sameness; they bounce around from program to program and diet to diet rather than starting somewhere and tweaking a few things at a time.
One piece of advice that Dave Tate gave to me at his seminar was to get a set program in place and work that for a while. Then only change one thing at a time and keep any change for 4-8 weeks. That way you can really get a feel for its effects.
Kind of obvious/not totally on topic but I thought I’d just interject my thoughts.