[quote]H factor wrote:
I was comparing the two. That much was obvious to you. Quit dancing around the fact. Clinton screwed up slightly Bush majorly was all I was saying.
Jeez “Zeb Jr.” let it rest. [/quote]
Had Clinton actually taken the Saudi’s up on there willingness to hand over Osama then 9/11 might never happened, and the 2nd Iraq war would not have happened. So who screwed up again?
[quote]dmaddox wrote:
[quote]H factor wrote:
I was comparing the two. That much was obvious to you. Quit dancing around the fact. Clinton screwed up slightly Bush majorly was all I was saying.
Jeez “Zeb Jr.” let it rest. [/quote]
Had Clinton actually taken the Saudi’s up on there willingness to hand over Osama then 9/11 might never happened, and the 2nd Iraq war would not have happened. So who screwed up again?[/quote]
If W hadn’t fucked up the entire economy handing Obama the biggest clusterfuck since the Great Depression then bailouts might not have happened, stimulus bill might not have happened, even Obamacare might not have happened (don’t forget it was his shitty handling that led to the Democrats winning everything).
Anyone can play that “but it wasn’t his fault” game. Obama has sucked ass as a President, but you can easily blame the guy before for the failures of the current guy if you want. W owns Iraq. We had absolutely no reason to go in before inspections were done except for his own desire to get in there.
And before you go there spare me the conservative line about how the economic catastrophe was all Clinton’s fault as well as absurdly as calling the success of the 90’s a result of Newt Gingrich only.
[quote]H factor wrote:
[quote]dmaddox wrote:
[quote]H factor wrote:
I was comparing the two. That much was obvious to you. Quit dancing around the fact. Clinton screwed up slightly Bush majorly was all I was saying.
Jeez “Zeb Jr.” let it rest. [/quote]
Had Clinton actually taken the Saudi’s up on there willingness to hand over Osama then 9/11 might never happened, and the 2nd Iraq war would not have happened. So who screwed up again?[/quote]
If W hadn’t fucked up the entire economy handing Obama the biggest clusterfuck since the Great Depression then bailouts might not have happened, stimulus bill might not have happened, even Obamacare might not have happened (don’t forget it was his shitty handling that led to the Democrats winning everything).
Anyone can play that “but it wasn’t his fault” game. Obama has sucked ass as a President, but you can easily blame the guy before for the failures of the current guy if you want. W owns Iraq. We had absolutely no reason to go in before inspections were done except for his own desire to get in there.
And before you go there spare me the conservative line about how the economic catastrophe was all Clinton’s fault as well as absurdly as calling the success of the 90’s a result of Newt Gingrich only. [/quote]
Glass Steagall was abolished by Clinton. The 90’s were good because of Reaganonimcs and George H.W. Bush. All Clinton did was not screw it up.
I will back you up on Iraq. Also Remember the vote to go to war with Iraq went through Congress and only 1 Democrat voted no.
[quote]dmaddox wrote:
[quote]H factor wrote:
[quote]dmaddox wrote:
[quote]H factor wrote:
I was comparing the two. That much was obvious to you. Quit dancing around the fact. Clinton screwed up slightly Bush majorly was all I was saying.
Jeez “Zeb Jr.” let it rest. [/quote]
Had Clinton actually taken the Saudi’s up on there willingness to hand over Osama then 9/11 might never happened, and the 2nd Iraq war would not have happened. So who screwed up again?[/quote]
If W hadn’t fucked up the entire economy handing Obama the biggest clusterfuck since the Great Depression then bailouts might not have happened, stimulus bill might not have happened, even Obamacare might not have happened (don’t forget it was his shitty handling that led to the Democrats winning everything).
Anyone can play that “but it wasn’t his fault” game. Obama has sucked ass as a President, but you can easily blame the guy before for the failures of the current guy if you want. W owns Iraq. We had absolutely no reason to go in before inspections were done except for his own desire to get in there.
And before you go there spare me the conservative line about how the economic catastrophe was all Clinton’s fault as well as absurdly as calling the success of the 90’s a result of Newt Gingrich only. [/quote]
Glass Steagall was abolished by Clinton. The 90’s were good because of Reaganonimcs and George H.W. Bush. All Clinton did was not screw it up.
I will back you up on Iraq. Also Remember the vote to go to war with Iraq went through Congress and only 1 Democrat voted no.[/quote]
I guess spare me was wasting my breath. Yes, anything positive that has happened in the last 5 presidents has been Republicans and all negatives have been Democrats. Quick with the party lines like a true party foot soldier.
[quote]H factor wrote:
[quote]dmaddox wrote:
[quote]H factor wrote:
[quote]dmaddox wrote:
[quote]H factor wrote:
I was comparing the two. That much was obvious to you. Quit dancing around the fact. Clinton screwed up slightly Bush majorly was all I was saying.
Jeez “Zeb Jr.” let it rest. [/quote]
Had Clinton actually taken the Saudi’s up on there willingness to hand over Osama then 9/11 might never happened, and the 2nd Iraq war would not have happened. So who screwed up again?[/quote]
If W hadn’t fucked up the entire economy handing Obama the biggest clusterfuck since the Great Depression then bailouts might not have happened, stimulus bill might not have happened, even Obamacare might not have happened (don’t forget it was his shitty handling that led to the Democrats winning everything).
Anyone can play that “but it wasn’t his fault” game. Obama has sucked ass as a President, but you can easily blame the guy before for the failures of the current guy if you want. W owns Iraq. We had absolutely no reason to go in before inspections were done except for his own desire to get in there.
And before you go there spare me the conservative line about how the economic catastrophe was all Clinton’s fault as well as absurdly as calling the success of the 90’s a result of Newt Gingrich only. [/quote]
Glass Steagall was abolished by Clinton. The 90’s were good because of Reaganonimcs and George H.W. Bush. All Clinton did was not screw it up.
I will back you up on Iraq. Also Remember the vote to go to war with Iraq went through Congress and only 1 Democrat voted no.[/quote]
I guess spare me was wasting my breath. Yes, anything positive that has happened in the last 5 presidents has been Republicans and all negatives have been Democrats. Quick with the party lines like a true party foot soldier. [/quote]
You need to know your history.
All the good stuff happened in the 80’s. “W” basically gave us lower taxes, but spent us into oblivion, and took away our freedoms with the Patriot Act. Clinton was a good President he did nothing. The best Presidents are ones that get out of the way and allow the Freemarkets to work.
[quote]dmaddox wrote:
[quote]H factor wrote:
[quote]dmaddox wrote:
[quote]H factor wrote:
[quote]dmaddox wrote:
[quote]H factor wrote:
I was comparing the two. That much was obvious to you. Quit dancing around the fact. Clinton screwed up slightly Bush majorly was all I was saying.
Jeez “Zeb Jr.” let it rest. [/quote]
Had Clinton actually taken the Saudi’s up on there willingness to hand over Osama then 9/11 might never happened, and the 2nd Iraq war would not have happened. So who screwed up again?[/quote]
If W hadn’t fucked up the entire economy handing Obama the biggest clusterfuck since the Great Depression then bailouts might not have happened, stimulus bill might not have happened, even Obamacare might not have happened (don’t forget it was his shitty handling that led to the Democrats winning everything).
Anyone can play that “but it wasn’t his fault” game. Obama has sucked ass as a President, but you can easily blame the guy before for the failures of the current guy if you want. W owns Iraq. We had absolutely no reason to go in before inspections were done except for his own desire to get in there.
And before you go there spare me the conservative line about how the economic catastrophe was all Clinton’s fault as well as absurdly as calling the success of the 90’s a result of Newt Gingrich only. [/quote]
Glass Steagall was abolished by Clinton. The 90’s were good because of Reaganonimcs and George H.W. Bush. All Clinton did was not screw it up.
I will back you up on Iraq. Also Remember the vote to go to war with Iraq went through Congress and only 1 Democrat voted no.[/quote]
I guess spare me was wasting my breath. Yes, anything positive that has happened in the last 5 presidents has been Republicans and all negatives have been Democrats. Quick with the party lines like a true party foot soldier. [/quote]
You need to know your history.
All the good stuff happened in the 80’s. “W” basically gave us lower taxes, but spent us into oblivion, and took away our freedoms with the Patriot Act. Clinton was a good President he did nothing. The best Presidents are ones that get out of the way and allow the Freemarkets to work.
[/quote]
So blame Clinton with one breath then call him a good President the next? “Giving” us low taxes when you’re increasing spending at massive rates is absolutely fucking stupid. Especially when the economy is doing decently. That wasn’t giving us shit. A lot of bad shit happened in the 80’s. Take a look at the national debt. Take a look at the increase in government spending. Sure sure righties will come in with the but the Soviets apology, but Reagan was a big government guy. Most of the shit he did in the 80’s was stuff that would make the current conservative crop absolutely flip out. Your last point is a good one, but free market needs neither capitalized or made into one word.
Raised taxes, tripled the debt, greatly expanded the military. Amnesty. And boy did he let the free markets work. He essentially bailed out Harley Davidson by imposing huge tariffs on their competition.
I believe Ronald Reagan is what the kiddos are calling RINO’S today. I don’t know it’s hard to keep up with the hypocrisies of the right as they attempt to “re-invent” themselves yet again.
I’ve said this before as have many others and boy does it get “conservatives” in a bind.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]H factor wrote:
[quote]dmaddox wrote:
[quote]H factor wrote:
[quote]dmaddox wrote:
[quote]H factor wrote:
[quote]dmaddox wrote:
[quote]H factor wrote:
I was comparing the two. That much was obvious to you. Quit dancing around the fact. Clinton screwed up slightly Bush majorly was all I was saying.
Jeez “Zeb Jr.” let it rest. [/quote]
Had Clinton actually taken the Saudi’s up on there willingness to hand over Osama then 9/11 might never happened, and the 2nd Iraq war would not have happened. So who screwed up again?[/quote]
If W hadn’t fucked up the entire economy handing Obama the biggest clusterfuck since the Great Depression then bailouts might not have happened, stimulus bill might not have happened, even Obamacare might not have happened (don’t forget it was his shitty handling that led to the Democrats winning everything).
Anyone can play that “but it wasn’t his fault” game. Obama has sucked ass as a President, but you can easily blame the guy before for the failures of the current guy if you want. W owns Iraq. We had absolutely no reason to go in before inspections were done except for his own desire to get in there.
And before you go there spare me the conservative line about how the economic catastrophe was all Clinton’s fault as well as absurdly as calling the success of the 90’s a result of Newt Gingrich only. [/quote]
Glass Steagall was abolished by Clinton. The 90’s were good because of Reaganonimcs and George H.W. Bush. All Clinton did was not screw it up.
I will back you up on Iraq. Also Remember the vote to go to war with Iraq went through Congress and only 1 Democrat voted no.[/quote]
I guess spare me was wasting my breath. Yes, anything positive that has happened in the last 5 presidents has been Republicans and all negatives have been Democrats. Quick with the party lines like a true party foot soldier. [/quote]
You need to know your history.
All the good stuff happened in the 80’s. “W” basically gave us lower taxes, but spent us into oblivion, and took away our freedoms with the Patriot Act. Clinton was a good President he did nothing. The best Presidents are ones that get out of the way and allow the Freemarkets to work.
[/quote]
So blame Clinton with one breath then call him a good President the next? “Giving” us low taxes when you’re increasing spending at massive rates is absolutely fucking stupid. Especially when the economy is doing decently. That wasn’t giving us shit. A lot of bad shit happened in the 80’s. Take a look at the national debt. Take a look at the increase in government spending. Sure sure righties will come in with the but the Soviets apology, but Reagan was a big government guy. Most of the shit he did in the 80’s was stuff that would make the current conservative crop absolutely flip out. Your last point is a good one, but free market needs neither capitalized or made into one word.
Raised taxes, tripled the debt, greatly expanded the military. Amnesty. And boy did he let the free markets work. He essentially bailed out Harley Davidson by imposing huge tariffs on their competition.
I believe Ronald Reagan is what the kiddos are calling RINO’S today. I don’t know it’s hard to keep up with the hypocrisies of the right as they attempt to “re-invent” themselves yet again.
I’ve said this before as have many others and boy does it get “conservatives” in a bind. [/quote]
You’ve misrepresented much about Reagan. Some of it you got right.
However, this is modus operandi. You fucked up royally with your ignorance about Lewinsky and Clinton so you tried to bend the topic over to GW Bush. Now you try and bend it back to Ronald Reagan.
Clinton only lowered taxes because a GOP House and Senate presented spending bills to Clinton that lowered taxes. Do you not understand basic civics? Do you not understand this? Are you really here again in all your Pittttbullll-esqe glory yapping on and on about things you do not fundamentally understand?[/quote]
Lol way to address nothing I said. First off you didn’t touch what I said about Reagan you just asserted I misrepresented it. Second I never had a shred of ignorance about Clinton and Lewinsky. I merely said from the beginning it wasn’t that big a deal compared to something else and it certainly isn’t. Perjury versus billions of wasted dollars, dead soldiers, Iraqi civilians? No brainer.
Third and final I didn’t say a damn thing about Clinton lowering taxes. Save the ad hominem attacks for once Push. I know it’s your go to move but it really makes you look bad. You can argue better than that.
I didn’t forget perjury, but apparently you forgot how to multi-quote. I compared it to what his successor did. And let’s not forget that the R’s look back at that time as an overreach unless you missed all them coming out saying they wouldn’t make those same mistakes again with Obama’s scandals.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]H factor wrote:
I didn’t forget perjury, but apparently you forgot how to multi-quote. I compared it to what his successor did. And let’s not forget that the R’s look back at that time as an overreach unless you missed all them coming out saying they wouldn’t make those same mistakes again with Obama’s scandals. [/quote]
If you say so. Please cite.[/quote]
I guess your google doesn’t work.
[quote]H factor wrote:
If W hadn’t fucked up the entire economy [/quote]
You are smarter than this utter nonsense. I get the feeling you are just trying to rile up along party lines, but I know, you know, the financial meltdown was decades in the making, and of all the parties responsible POTUS at the time was one of the least at fault.
Bush fucked up a lot of things, in fact the only thing I will defend of his was the tax cuts. But September 2008 wasn’t his fault, and anyone blaming him, is just as much a party line apologist as anyone they are trying to rile up…
While a bit hyper-partisan, looks like 'Bush" might not have been the one that fucked up the F&F portion of the situation.
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]H factor wrote:
If W hadn’t fucked up the entire economy [/quote]
You are smarter than this utter nonsense. I get the feeling you are just trying to rile up along party lines, but I know, you know, the financial meltdown was decades in the making, and of all the parties responsible POTUS at the time was one of the least at fault.
Bush fucked up a lot of things, in fact the only thing I will defend of his was the tax cuts. But September 2008 wasn’t his fault, and anyone blaming him, is just as much a party line apologist as anyone they are trying to rile up… [/quote]
Is this not the same logic the right applies to everything? Hell you can see it in this thread. Reagan’s successes were all him, the Democrats had nothing to do with it. Clinton’s successes were all the Republicans, he was shitty but the Republicans saved him. Bush was great until the Democrats got some power. Obama has been completely awful soley because of him the Republicans have had nothing to do with it.
Of course the meltdown was years in the making I was pointing out it is VERY easy to do what the die hard righties are doing in this thread. The left can EASILY claim Reagan’s successes were their doing. The left can say Clinton was solely responsible for the 90’s boom. The left can easily claim Obama was handed a fucking mess and he’d have been much better if he wasn’t.
That was what I was trying to point out. Hell I even said spare me it before dmaddox went there…but he couldn’t stop himself.
Maddox used his superior far right wing brain to pick up on the idea that the Iraq War was Bill Clinton’s fault lmfao.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]H factor wrote:
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]H factor wrote:
I didn’t forget perjury, but apparently you forgot how to multi-quote. I compared it to what his successor did. And let’s not forget that the R’s look back at that time as an overreach unless you missed all them coming out saying they wouldn’t make those same mistakes again with Obama’s scandals. [/quote]
If you say so. Please cite.[/quote]
I guess your google doesn’t work.
That’s what I thought. One (1) Republican mentioned an overreach.
“All (sic) them” did not come “out saying they wouldn’t make those same mistakes again with Obama’s scandals.” Your columnist suggested it but you, H factor lied, the facts died.
[/quote]
Your counting is REALLY bad. Must not have read either article.
Spoiler alert: It wasn’t one.
Question for all of you. Do you really believe that the President (from whichever side) truly has the power, on their own to either fuck things up or improve them? Or do you think that they are more likely a figurehead wheeled out to spout whatever the policy makers and speach writers prepare for them?