T Nation

New Here and New to TRT

A SERM will maintain LH/FSH and some degree of baseline T production, which depends on the testes.

Clomid [steroidal] has nasty estrogen side effect for some, recommend non-steroidal Nolvadex.

SERM dose should be low, 10mg or 10mg/EOD, just enough to maintain the testes and scrotum. If SERM pushes LH too high, one can get high E2 levels from T–>E2 inside the testes and AI cannot control that.

No one seems to think that a life time of SERM is advisable. hCG is a natural hormone.

SERMs do nothing to decrease E2, they only shield SELECTED tissues from the effects of E2. Only an AI will reduce E2.

Your vitamins will list the fillers, which can be yeast or some other ‘natural’ material.

Finally got to check my labs again for ft4.

Lab says:

FT4/VITROS 0.99 RANGE: 0.85-2.37

Thoughts?

Kaynon311,

Looks like I might be able to receive PM’s now, Care to try that PM again?

Thanks

Ned, tried to send a PM to you, does not show up in my sent messages. Last PM I have from a member is 9/9/2012

FT4 mid range would be 1.6, your reading is low! TSH=2.0 is elevated. Still suggests a problem. Waking body temperature suggests that you thyroid function is low. If iodine increases body temperature, problem solved.

[quote]KSman wrote:
Ned, tried to send a PM to you, does not show up in my sent messages. Last PM I have from a member is 9/9/2012

FT4 mid range would be 1.6, your reading is low! TSH=2.0 is elevated. Still suggests a problem. Waking body temperature suggests that you thyroid function is low. If iodine increases body temperature, problem solved.[/quote]

Thank You!
I will give it a shot. Will labs show improved/accurate levels to of both FT4 and TSH while on TRT if the iodine helps. Or will i need to quit TRT to know whether the iodine helps?

Ned,

my PM isn’t working either, apparently. Try sending me one and I’ll respond.

Are you asking if normal guys should be castrated so they can get accurate thyroid labs? -NOT

Both T and thyroid levels need to be normalized as otherwise each can pull the other down.

Without iodine replenishment, you would see what the problem was. But your body temperature tells that story. Some will fix an iodine deficiency and if temperatures normalize and they feel better that is the end of the story. We know that fT4 is low and TSH up, so you need to decide what to do.

In my own iodine deficiency, I was not interested in what any thyroid labs were as I wanted to get my iodine status fixed and then whatever the labs might have been was not material, not very scientific, but my attitude.

I did attempt a PM, does not work.

[quote]KSman wrote:
Are you asking if normal guys should be castrated so they can get accurate thyroid labs? -NOT

Both T and thyroid levels need to be normalized as otherwise each can pull the other down.

Without iodine replenishment, you would see what the problem was. But your body temperature tells that story. Some will fix an iodine deficiency and if temperatures normalize and they feel better that is the end of the story. We know that fT4 is low and TSH up, so you need to decide what to do.

In my own iodine deficiency, I was not interested in what any thyroid labs were as I wanted to get my iodine status fixed and then whatever the labs might have been was not material, not very scientific, but my attitude. [/quote]

Not exactly what i was asking but i see your point. I just didnt know if the external test would skew the numbers since i wouldnt be producing natural test. Obviously it doesnt matter.

I’m sure i will have these labs again at some point so it will be interesting to see how more iodine affects these numbers.

Just had my visit with this new Doc,

He suggests i quit the Test all together and just take clomid. 1/4 pill a day to start with then adjust based on numbers. Is he way off the mark on this?

I asked him about HCG and he said he knew some docs use it but said he had had such good results with the clomid alone that he didnt use it. He also stated that HCG has some side effects. I then asked what kind of sides as i havent read anything about HCG sides. He stated that HCG can make you get the facial features of andre the giant. Hands like him too.

I didnt know what to even say… just kinda laughed and said have a nice day, then proceeded to leave his office.

So doc does not know the difference between hCG and hGH.

We have a thread for this:

[quote]KSman wrote:
So doc does not know the difference between hCG and hGH.

We have a thread for this:


[/quote]

I thought of that topic when he was blabbing away Ive added my input the thread.

KSman,

Thoughts on stopping test and going clomid only? Bad of an idea as it seems?

We need to understand you in the context of the E2 data that we do not have.

SERMs increase E2.

Not clomid, Nolvadex.

Need more body temps.

See the new sticky “thyroid basics”

Ksman,

im awaiting the results of my 1st labs since starting trt. e2 is one of these tests.

Need more body temps. Need more body temps. Need more body temps. Need more body temps. Need more body temps. Need more body temps. Need more body temps. Need more body temps. Need more body temps. Need more body temps. Need more body temps. Need more body temps.

Out of bed at 6:45, temp at 705…97.2

12.5mg Iodine tabs should be here friday or monday.

Newest labs as follows. been on 100mg test cyp a week divided into 2 doses a week. Ive been injecting on wednesday nights and sunday mornings. This blood draw was on a thursday morning.

Testosterone 511 Range: 300-623
anion gap 12.1 7-16
egfr 89 no range listed
estradiol <20 no range listed

I was taking anastrozole prior to these tests but had quit taking it all together about 1.5 weeks before the blood work. Think it still had an effect on these #'s?

Looks like she really over did it on this set of labs!

Can someone enlighten me on why some peoples ranges are say 340-1100 for testosterone range and mine are 300-623 all the time?

Different labs have different ranges. They could also be placing you within an age group range. When I first began testing (29yr old) the lab range was 250-1100. At the time I was falling around the mid-500s. Later on in a different side of the country my lab range was 205-781 (which I believe was the range for a 30yr old) and I was around the low 600s. You would probably do well to shoot for the upper limit of their range, Ned.

Thanks Kaynon, I found a chart that says average for someone 28 should be right about 700. The top 10 percentile of the 25-34 age group was averaging 1005.