T Nation

New Here and New to TRT


#10

Thank you JoeyB. I will do some reading up on that and bring it up with the doctor.

What are some causes for pituitary malfunction?


#11

Ned, the advice for new guy’s sticky. We need TSH, fT3, fT4. Check and post your oral body temperatures. Do you use iodized salt?

Your diet, as described, seems like a bad combo of carbs. Your 36" waist is a problem. Need fasting glucose and cholesterol. Get E2 tested. You can do some labs on your own if needed.

What are some causes for pituitary malfunction? The advice for new guys sticky and there is a sticky concerning things that damage one’s hormones.

Taking vitamins or supplements?

Go to Walmart and get 5000iu vit-D3 tiny oil caps. Take one a day, your wife too!


#12

[quote]KSman wrote:
Ned, the advice for new guy’s sticky. We need TSH, fT3, fT4. Check and post your oral body temperatures. Do you use iodized salt?

Your diet, as described, seems like a bad combo of carbs. Your 36" waist is a problem. Need fasting glucose and cholesterol. Get E2 tested. You can do some labs on your own if needed.

What are some causes for pituitary malfunction? The advice for new guys sticky and there is a sticky concerning things that damage one’s hormones.

Taking vitamins or supplements?

Go to Walmart and get 5000iu vit-D3 tiny oil caps. Take one a day, your wife too![/quote]

KSMAN,
been waiting for your reply.

I dont use salt very often but when i do it is iodized salt. Small quantities though. Fasting glucose has been between 80-107 on all of the different lab reports that i have from the last 8 months or so. All of the lab results posted have been fasting labs, right away in the morning.

I have tried multi vitamins on and off for a few years but i believe they are the cause of terrible headaches that i get. I only get headaches when i take multi vitamins. I guess i decided they werent worth the headache(pun inteneded) and havent touched them in a year or so. I have also been taking vit D3. I started that right after the lab results indicated that i was borderline low.

Looked through the stacks and stacks of papers i have from the VA and found a couple more #'s that you have asked for. Doesnt look like i have FT3 for you though.

TSH 1.95 .465-4.68
ft4 .99 .85-2.37
cholestrol 202 <=200


#13

Just got done with supper, Went and took my temp via oral digital thermometer. 98.2f

KSMan,

I know i read it somewhere on T Nation over the last few days but i cannot find it again, what is the significance of wanting to know body temps?


#14

I just got off the phone with the urologist that i spoke of earlier in this thread, well his nurse actually.

I asked her about hcg for the fertility issue and she said it wasnt something that they currently did but that the Dr was open to new things and had no problem doing some research on new stuff. I mentioned E2 tests and she said they did that for sure.

She also mentioned clomid but it wasnt clear as to whether or not that was for E2 levels or if she was saying that was for the fertility issue.

Am i correct in thinking that I want no part of Clomid?

I decided to meet with him on Jan 2nd. as it seemed he was somewhat open to the idea of hcg and AI’s.

So now if you guys would be so kind as to give me any and all credible ammo/links for these 2 items so i can take them with me when i go to the doc it would be appreciated.


#15

Here is a link for the temps question. It is KSman discussing his thyroid. Temps can help indicate thyroid function.

Regarding the question you asked about pititary problems, I think a whole slew of things can cause them. In my particular case I think it was extreme stress for several months due to a family situation, averaging 4 hours sleep, poor diet, no exercize etc. I also know I have a weak thyroid and that may have contributed.

Clomid or other SERMS are used to try to correct a pituitary problem. They essentially re-start it (if successful). It prompts the production of LH/FSH so that your body can produce t on its own.

I started on test injections when I realized I had low T. About a year later I am figuring out the cause and that I should have first tried to correct the problem at the source.

For people with primary hypogonadism, this isnt an option. Their problem is in the testicles so trying to fix LH etc wont help.

Because it sounds like you are secondary, Clomid might be worth looking into. - Except people on here suggest Nolvadex rather than Clomid. It has fewer side effects.


#16

Todays temp reading is 98.6f


#17

Ned, please double check your fT4 result and range. From what you posted, you are way off from mid-range and mid range is where one should be.

TSH also creates concern.

Low iodine is a major concern as there is less and less in peoples diets now. But your 98.6 is good, for mid afternoon. When you wake, 97.7 would be ideal. Where are you?

The problem is that we see so many guys with low T who have subclinical hypothyroidism.

So we have concerns with low fT4 and elevated TSH, but 98.6 puts a cap on the problem. Waiting for waking body temps.

SERMs may or not have a role to play, definitely avoid clomid as it can make some guys fell really bad, use Nolvadex, for what it is been asked to do, it will get the job done.


#18

97.2f @ 7:08am. I woke up @ 6:45 today.

I will recheck and post FT4 again a little later today.


#19

Your intolerance of vitamins is odd and should be considered as a symptom, not an inconvenience. Wondering if you have a gut problem. Any digestive issues? If so, probiotics might be useful. [Most probiotics are junk, you need a product that has many different bacteria types and should be sold refrigerated, need to get from a health food store.]

We know that your iodine intake is low and your status will be low. Time to consider iodine replenishment. You can see what is available at the health food store.

The checking of waking body temperatures is the norm. I added checking afternoon temperatures as a second indicator. I think that low AM and normal PM is a lesser problem than the inability to warm up during the day.


#20

KSman,

I havent noticed any digestive problems, I pretty much can eat anything i want and not have a problem with digestion. I used to have a constipation issue but that seemed to be cured by making sure i was eating fiber everyday.

I feel that i have pretty much nailed down the headache problem to vitamins. Its strange though as when im taking vitamins i can have a headache one day and not again for another week sometimes. Other times its a daily occurance. I very very seldom have a headache when im not taking vitamins though so i think i can comfortable say that there is a correlation between the headaches and the vitamins.

Are there fillers in vitamins to give them their pill shape? Could a certain filler be the problem?

I will look into iodine replenishment options.

Question for KSman,

The new doc im going to see on the 2nd likes clomid instead of hcg and Anastrozole. How do i best plead my case to him.

I think i can make a pretty good case as far as the estrogen concern goes. Why even let the T get converted to E like clomid lets happen. Why not just keep it as T like it should be?

How about the HCG aspect of it? From what his nurse told me it seems like he tries to kill 2 birds with one stone by using clomid. Jump start the Testes and keep E at bay with one med instead of the 2. What should my counter attack be?

I want to thank everyone who has contributed. Ive learned more in the past couple weeks around here than i can comprehend right now. It will all sink in though…eventually!


#21

A SERM will maintain LH/FSH and some degree of baseline T production, which depends on the testes.

Clomid [steroidal] has nasty estrogen side effect for some, recommend non-steroidal Nolvadex.

SERM dose should be low, 10mg or 10mg/EOD, just enough to maintain the testes and scrotum. If SERM pushes LH too high, one can get high E2 levels from T–>E2 inside the testes and AI cannot control that.

No one seems to think that a life time of SERM is advisable. hCG is a natural hormone.

SERMs do nothing to decrease E2, they only shield SELECTED tissues from the effects of E2. Only an AI will reduce E2.

Your vitamins will list the fillers, which can be yeast or some other ‘natural’ material.


#22

Finally got to check my labs again for ft4.

Lab says:

FT4/VITROS 0.99 RANGE: 0.85-2.37

Thoughts?


#23

Kaynon311,

Looks like I might be able to receive PM’s now, Care to try that PM again?

Thanks


#24

Ned, tried to send a PM to you, does not show up in my sent messages. Last PM I have from a member is 9/9/2012

FT4 mid range would be 1.6, your reading is low! TSH=2.0 is elevated. Still suggests a problem. Waking body temperature suggests that you thyroid function is low. If iodine increases body temperature, problem solved.


#25

[quote]KSman wrote:
Ned, tried to send a PM to you, does not show up in my sent messages. Last PM I have from a member is 9/9/2012

FT4 mid range would be 1.6, your reading is low! TSH=2.0 is elevated. Still suggests a problem. Waking body temperature suggests that you thyroid function is low. If iodine increases body temperature, problem solved.[/quote]

Thank You!
I will give it a shot. Will labs show improved/accurate levels to of both FT4 and TSH while on TRT if the iodine helps. Or will i need to quit TRT to know whether the iodine helps?


#26

Ned,

my PM isn’t working either, apparently. Try sending me one and I’ll respond.


#27

Are you asking if normal guys should be castrated so they can get accurate thyroid labs? -NOT

Both T and thyroid levels need to be normalized as otherwise each can pull the other down.

Without iodine replenishment, you would see what the problem was. But your body temperature tells that story. Some will fix an iodine deficiency and if temperatures normalize and they feel better that is the end of the story. We know that fT4 is low and TSH up, so you need to decide what to do.

In my own iodine deficiency, I was not interested in what any thyroid labs were as I wanted to get my iodine status fixed and then whatever the labs might have been was not material, not very scientific, but my attitude.


#28

I did attempt a PM, does not work.


#29

[quote]KSman wrote:
Are you asking if normal guys should be castrated so they can get accurate thyroid labs? -NOT

Both T and thyroid levels need to be normalized as otherwise each can pull the other down.

Without iodine replenishment, you would see what the problem was. But your body temperature tells that story. Some will fix an iodine deficiency and if temperatures normalize and they feel better that is the end of the story. We know that fT4 is low and TSH up, so you need to decide what to do.

In my own iodine deficiency, I was not interested in what any thyroid labs were as I wanted to get my iodine status fixed and then whatever the labs might have been was not material, not very scientific, but my attitude. [/quote]

Not exactly what i was asking but i see your point. I just didnt know if the external test would skew the numbers since i wouldnt be producing natural test. Obviously it doesnt matter.

I’m sure i will have these labs again at some point so it will be interesting to see how more iodine affects these numbers.