T Nation

New Football Workout

My football team, D-III, was given this new workout program that starts now and ends before summer break.

M/W/F - Lifting
T/Th. - Speed & Agility

That sounds like a solid base…however, here’s an example of the lifting program for the first week. I’d like your opinion on it. To me, it just seems like way too much. Too many sets/reps/exercises, too much of everything.

Monday: 8-10 reps ea.

  1. Hang Clean 4 sets
  2. Push Press 3 sets
  3. DB Row 4 sets
  4. DB Bench on Ball 4 sets
  5. Lat Pull Super Set 3 sets
  6. Close Grip Flat Bench 3 sets
  7. Upright Row 3 sets
  8. Triceps Pressdown 3 sets
  9. Standing Biceps Curl (DB) 3 sets
  10. Stability Ball Ab Crunch 3x25
  11. Lower Back Extension 3x15
  12. Ladder Speed Workout

Wednesday: 8-10 reps ea.

  1. Push Press to OH (over head) Squat 4 sets
  2. 1 Arm DB Snatch 3 sets
  3. Back Squat 4 sets
  4. Plate Lunge w/ Russian Twist 3 sets
  5. Side Delt Cable Raise 3 sets
  6. Reverse Cable Fly 3 sets
  7. Good Morning 3 sets
  8. Barbell Shrug 3 sets
  9. DB Farmer’s Grip 3 sets
  10. Decline Bench Sit-Up 3x20
  11. Stability Ball V-up 3x15
  12. Ladder Agility Workout

Friday: 8-10 reps ea.

  1. Hang Clean 4 sets
  2. Push Jerk 3 sets
  3. Bent Over Row 4 sets
  4. Flat Bench 4 sets
  5. Assisted Pull Up 3 sets
  6. DB Close Girp Inc. Bench 3 sets
  7. OH Barbell Shrug 3 sets
  8. Standing OH Triceps Ext. 3 sets
  9. Standing Biceps Curl (bar) 3 sets
  10. Abs
  11. Abs
  12. Ladder Quickness Workout

What do you think?? I’ve never done anything like this before…this workout is taking an average of 2 HOURS(!) for most of our players. This just seems so unreasonable to me.

I’m used to doing a 5 day split and have made steady progress…I’m extremely frustrated about it. Let me know what you think.

Looks pretty retarded.

[quote]dhuge67 wrote:
Looks pretty retarded.[/quote]

My thoughts exactly…the man who put this together is an assistant football coach and assistant strength coach. I’m not sure what to do. It’s rediculous.

Are you required to do it, ie, are you lifting with the team? If so, just do it and go all out. If possible, tweak things slightly, but sometimes there is nothing you can do. I’m in a similar situation as you and sometimes you just gotta put the team ahead as that is important for morale and team cohesiveness and all that nice crap.

It might even help you make progress as it’s likely way different than what you’re doing now and is likely way different than what you’ll be doing in the summer, so it could act as a way to switch things up- might not be that bad.

If you don’t have to lift with the team, then just do your own damn thing, something like WS4SB. That’s pretty much my strategy.

[quote]cardinal25 wrote:
My football team, D-III, was given this new workout program that starts now and ends before summer break.

M/W/F - Lifting
T/Th. - Speed & Agility

That sounds like a solid base…however, here’s an example of the lifting program for the first week. I’d like your opinion on it. To me, it just seems like way too much. Too many sets/reps/exercises, too much of everything.

Monday: 8-10 reps ea.

  1. Hang Clean 4 sets
  2. Push Press 3 sets
  3. DB Row 4 sets
  4. DB Bench on Ball 4 sets
  5. Lat Pull Super Set 3 sets
  6. Close Grip Flat Bench 3 sets
  7. Upright Row 3 sets
  8. Triceps Pressdown 3 sets
  9. Standing Biceps Curl (DB) 3 sets
  10. Stability Ball Ab Crunch 3x25
  11. Lower Back Extension 3x15
  12. Ladder Speed Workout

Wednesday: 8-10 reps ea.

  1. Push Press to OH (over head) Squat 4 sets
  2. 1 Arm DB Snatch 3 sets
  3. Back Squat 4 sets
  4. Plate Lunge w/ Russian Twist 3 sets
  5. Side Delt Cable Raise 3 sets
  6. Reverse Cable Fly 3 sets
  7. Good Morning 3 sets
  8. Barbell Shrug 3 sets
  9. DB Farmer’s Grip 3 sets
  10. Decline Bench Sit-Up 3x20
  11. Stability Ball V-up 3x15
  12. Ladder Agility Workout

Friday: 8-10 reps ea.

  1. Hang Clean 4 sets
  2. Push Jerk 3 sets
  3. Bent Over Row 4 sets
  4. Flat Bench 4 sets
  5. Assisted Pull Up 3 sets
  6. DB Close Girp Inc. Bench 3 sets
  7. OH Barbell Shrug 3 sets
  8. Standing OH Triceps Ext. 3 sets
  9. Standing Biceps Curl (bar) 3 sets
  10. Abs
  11. Abs
  12. Ladder Quickness Workout

What do you think?? I’ve never done anything like this before…this workout is taking an average of 2 HOURS(!) for most of our players. This just seems so unreasonable to me.

I’m used to doing a 5 day split and have made steady progress…I’m extremely frustrated about it. Let me know what you think.[/quote]

If you are wanting to try to follow it you could superset everything that isn’t a core lift (Powerclean, Bench, Squat) and easily cut time down. If you are wanting me to say that its a shit on workout I won’t, but I bet there are better workouts out there than this. I can send you something if you want, just pm me if you want something specific.

Just curious, wtf is a ladder quickness workout and how is it different from a ladder speed workout.

I don’t think those ladders are getting anbyody, except 10-14 year olds and those who are very untrained/lack coordination, to move faster.

[quote]jtrinsey wrote:
Just curious, wtf is a ladder quickness workout and how is it different from a ladder speed workout.

I don’t think those ladders are getting anbyody, except 10-14 year olds and those who are very untrained/lack coordination, to move faster.[/quote]

I disagree. We did the ladder everyday for a warmup and for some positions in football (OL) it will help (base blocking steps). There are times when it should be used, and times when it shouldn’t be used.

[quote]jtrinsey wrote:
Are you required to do it, ie, are you lifting with the team? If so, just do it and go all out. If possible, tweak things slightly, but sometimes there is nothing you can do. I’m in a similar situation as you and sometimes you just gotta put the team ahead as that is important for morale and team cohesiveness and all that nice crap.

It might even help you make progress as it’s likely way different than what you’re doing now and is likely way different than what you’ll be doing in the summer, so it could act as a way to switch things up- might not be that bad.

If you don’t have to lift with the team, then just do your own damn thing, something like WS4SB. That’s pretty much my strategy.[/quote]

We are monitored and have to log our progress in a book. Our coach had good intentions when putting the program together and having the team working as a unit is always good, however, there are much better programs out there. I’ve always lifted on my own and done my own lifting program. This lifting program was put into place because of the lazy assholes who never got in the gym. For me, like most of you, training is a lifestyle, a state of mind…the benefits from training that I see on the field are just a bonus.

The real issue that myself and some of the more experienced lifters on the team have is that it’s too long, too many exercises, and too many reps. Can you say overtraining? I like some of the exercises we do but why so many? There also doesn’t seem to be any rhyme or reason for the exercise pairings, it’s like they were picked out of a hat.

Maybe I’m just being a pussy and I need to suck it up…do the workout…and move on. It’s only about 6 more weeks or so until the summer when I can train however the fuck I want. I just feel like I’m wasting my time (2 hours) doing a program that I know isn’t maximizing my potential in the gym. Sorry to vent.

[quote]tveddy wrote:
jtrinsey wrote:
Just curious, wtf is a ladder quickness workout and how is it different from a ladder speed workout.

I don’t think those ladders are getting anbyody, except 10-14 year olds and those who are very untrained/lack coordination, to move faster.

I disagree. We did the ladder everyday for a warmup and for some positions in football (OL) it will help (base blocking steps). There are times when it should be used, and times when it shouldn’t be used.[/quote]

I do like the ladder…I’m not sure about the word choice though.

[quote]tveddy wrote:
If you are wanting to try to follow it you could superset everything that isn’t a core lift (Powerclean, Bench, Squat) and easily cut time down. If you are wanting me to say that its a shit on workout I won’t, but I bet there are better workouts out there than this. I can send you something if you want, just pm me if you want something specific.

[/quote]

I’m going to try your supersetting suggestion…I already did it for a couple of the exercises, but I can definitely afford to superset a few more! haha

I couldn’t help but notice the volume of shoulder work. It seems redundant. Let’s add this up:

  1. Hang Clean 4 sets Shoulders 4x10=40 reps
  2. Push Press 3 sets Shoulders 3x10=30 reps
  3. DB Row 4 sets
  4. DB Bench on Ball 4 sets
  5. Lat Pull Super Set 3 sets
  6. Close Grip Flat Bench 3 sets
  7. Upright Row 3 sets Shoulders 3x10= 30 reps
  8. Triceps Pressdown 3 sets
  9. Standing Biceps Curl (DB) 3 sets
  10. Stability Ball Ab Crunch 3x25
  11. Lower Back Extension 3x15
  12. Ladder Speed Workout

So on exercises that target shoulders more directly you’re in the range of 100 reps. Now throw in the rows and the bench which target the shoulders to a lesser extent, and you get 8 more sets good for another 80 reps and you’ve got some fried grapefruits by the end of the week. It doesn’t seem particularly balanced. How many weeks will this phase last? Maybe you should just go ahead, put the bit in your mouth and pull the load for a month or so and just treat it as a grand experiment.

I haven’t yet taken the time to dissect the pairing of horizontal push vs pulling and vertical push vs. pulling, maybe from that perspective it will appear more balanced. I’m going to look over it again to see, but initially the volume of shoulder movements jumped out at me. Maybe you should document your delt development pre and post cycle for kicks…

[quote]MikeA. wrote:
I couldn’t help but notice the volume of shoulder work. It seems redundant. Let’s add this up:

  1. Hang Clean 4 sets Shoulders 4x10=40 reps
  2. Push Press 3 sets Shoulders 3x10=30 reps
  3. DB Row 4 sets
  4. DB Bench on Ball 4 sets
  5. Lat Pull Super Set 3 sets
  6. Close Grip Flat Bench 3 sets
  7. Upright Row 3 sets Shoulders 3x10= 30 reps
  8. Triceps Pressdown 3 sets
  9. Standing Biceps Curl (DB) 3 sets
  10. Stability Ball Ab Crunch 3x25
  11. Lower Back Extension 3x15
  12. Ladder Speed Workout

So on exercises that target shoulders more directly you’re in the range of 100 reps. Now throw in the rows and the bench which target the shoulders to a lesser extent, and you get 8 more sets good for another 80 reps and you’ve got some fried grapefruits by the end of the week.

It doesn’t seem particularly balanced. How many weeks will this phase last? Maybe you should just go ahead, put the bit in your mouth and pull the load for a month or so and just treat it as a grand experiment.

I haven’t yet taken the time to dissect the pairing of horizontal push vs pulling and vertical push vs. pulling, maybe from that perspective it will appear more balanced. I’m going to look over it again to see, but initially the volume of shoulder movements jumped out at me. Maybe you should document your delt development pre and post cycle for kicks…[/quote]

That was another thing I was surprised at! Each time I read it little things jump out at me…I have to bite the bullet and do it for a few weeks or until the coach stops watching like a hawk. I won’t look good as a teammate either if I don’t give it a chance.

[quote]tveddy wrote:
jtrinsey wrote:
Just curious, wtf is a ladder quickness workout and how is it different from a ladder speed workout.

I don’t think those ladders are getting anbyody, except 10-14 year olds and those who are very untrained/lack coordination, to move faster.

I disagree. We did the ladder everyday for a warmup and for some positions in football (OL) it will help (base blocking steps). There are times when it should be used, and times when it shouldn’t be used.[/quote]

Perhaps for a bigger, uncoordinated person.

The problem I see with the ladder stuff is that:

a.) It’s all very upright and with feet in close together and not in very applicable body positions.
b.) The forces are all very low and you aren’t moving through any real range of motion.

We’ve done a lot of those drills at the volleyball club I played for in high school (club director is a big proponent of them), guys and girls ages 12 through 18. One thing I notice is that there isn’t much correlation between how good you are on the ladder and how well you move on the court, ie, some players will fly through that ladder like a ballet dancer but get smoked in a 10m sprint and can’t jump over a phone book. And some stumble through the ladder but can jump out of the gym.

Now of course, you might be doing different drills (also sounds like you are getting some more specific application there), and also, possibly the class of athlete you are working with is much different. The typical volleyball player (especially young female) is often quick and agile but pretty weak, so the low-force coordination/RATE drills are just working on their strengths.

Whereas the lineman you’re working with are probably strong, but need more of the low-force, synchronisation stuff.

One thing I’d like to experiment with doing the ladders in a low body position, ie staying in a parallel squat while going through them. I have tried that a couple of times and not only is it wicked hard, but you can really feel the hams engage. Could be useful for hamstring reactivity…

Alright, sorry for the hi-jack!

[quote]jtrinsey wrote:

Alright, sorry for the hi-jack![/quote]

No need to apologize!!

That sounds like a pretty ridiculous amount of work to me. I’m not saying you shouldn’t work hard, cos obviously you are going to need to if you play football, but these rep ranges you are describing serve no purpose.

For example, 4x10 on hang cleans? Obviously, to meet this, you have to significantly drop the amount of weight you would use. Hence, it kind of takes the “power” out of the power clean, no?

I’m sorry, but I think your coach needs to re-evaluate both his exercise selections and especially his rep ranges. This just really doesn’t strike me as a football workout that’s going to result in truly stronger, more powerful players.

Just my two cents, though. Is your coach open to discussion from the more knowledgeable of you guys?

[quote]mapwhap wrote:
That sounds like a pretty ridiculous amount of work to me. I’m not saying you shouldn’t work hard, cos obviously you are going to need to if you play football, but these rep ranges you are describing serve no purpose.

For example, 4x10 on hang cleans? Obviously, to meet this, you have to significantly drop the amount of weight you would use. Hence, it kind of takes the “power” out of the power clean, no?

I’m sorry, but I think your coach needs to re-evaluate both his exercise selections and especially his rep ranges. This just really doesn’t strike me as a football workout that’s going to result in truly stronger, more powerful players.

Just my two cents, though. Is your coach open to discussion from the more knowledgeable of you guys?

[/quote]

This is the second “mandatory” program he has given us. The first one, I tried for a week, didn’t like it, continued my own workout and just filled in the program log. I don’t feel comfortable confronting him about it right now. Maybe after a few weeks. I believe he thinks that he knows it all when it comes to training, nutrition, etc. One time I went to him for nutritional advice, just to see what he would say, and he started lecturing me about Whey protein and Amino Acids like I was a pre-schooler. The same applies to our time in the gym. To his credit, he does know the proper techniques, but he was giving me shit for wearing a belt during squats yesterday after doing Push Press to OH squat, and DB snatches which put quite a bit of pressure on my lower back. I don’t think he’s into discussion about the program. I’m sure he has an explanation for each little problem I have with it.

I went to another coach, asked him about it, immiedielty he said, “Is it too hard for you? Is that it?” The typical football, meathead coach response. I was like, obviously not, but more sets, reps, time in the gym does not equal more size, speed, and strength. He said it was a good program, and I should stop being a pussy…

There’s a few other factors contributing to my disgust with this program that I’m not willing to discuss in the open forum.

[quote]cardinal25 wrote:
mapwhap wrote:
That sounds like a pretty ridiculous amount of work to me. I’m not saying you shouldn’t work hard, cos obviously you are going to need to if you play football, but these rep ranges you are describing serve no purpose.

For example, 4x10 on hang cleans? Obviously, to meet this, you have to significantly drop the amount of weight you would use. Hence, it kind of takes the “power” out of the power clean, no?

I’m sorry, but I think your coach needs to re-evaluate both his exercise selections and especially his rep ranges. This just really doesn’t strike me as a football workout that’s going to result in truly stronger, more powerful players.

Just my two cents, though. Is your coach open to discussion from the more knowledgeable of you guys?

This is the second “mandatory” program he has given us. The first one, I tried for a week, didn’t like it, continued my own workout and just filled in the program log. I don’t feel comfortable confronting him about it right now. Maybe after a few weeks. I believe he thinks that he knows it all when it comes to training, nutrition, etc. One time I went to him for nutritional advice, just to see what he would say, and he started lecturing me about Whey protein and Amino Acids like I was a pre-schooler. The same applies to our time in the gym. To his credit, he does know the proper techniques, but he was giving me shit for wearing a belt during squats yesterday after doing Push Press to OH squat, and DB snatches which put quite a bit of pressure on my lower back. I don’t think he’s into discussion about the program. I’m sure he has an explanation for each little problem I have with it.

I went to another coach, asked him about it, immiedielty he said, “Is it too hard for you? Is that it?” The typical football, meathead coach response. I was like, obviously not, but more sets, reps, time in the gym does not equal more size, speed, and strength. He said it was a good program, and I should stop being a pussy…

There’s a few other factors contributing to my disgust with this program that I’m not willing to discuss in the open forum.[/quote]

try showing up with a workout that you designed already in hand and be able to back up why it is better. If you try designing one off of Boyd Epley or someone that they have heard of, I bet they won’t mind as much as if you design it off of a body building person that they don’t know.

I also had to work out with my football team, but I would just not go so hard and go to the gym later in the day by myself, if you can get a gym membership do that.

You do more volume in one day than the majority of my athletes do in an entire week.

www.EricCressey.com

I’d listen to what Eric has to say…maybe reach out to him and see what he would suggest. He might be able to work a program specific to your position and goals.

This guy knows what he’s talk’n about.

Of course your strength coach will more than likely get pissy because he wants to be in control…

Tough situation…otherwise…suck it up like a warrior and deal with it.