Why not make a quick comment on that video?
I did, and think it would be a way for more out of shape people to see it. Here, we can rant all day long about it, and we’re just preaching to the choir.
At least if we post a non-emotional comment, with some good info, there’s a better chance someone who needs the advice will see it.
It’s funny, but with a positive attitude like hers, the girl in that video is probably the most likely to actually lose weight.
They will eat us alive if we comment. There is just so much more going on in their head psychologically that any logical discussion we try to get into with them would be hopeless. It is not worth the time and effort required to deal with them, they are just too emotionally invested when it comes to a topic like this. For them, videos like this just confirms their old beliefs as that is what most of the comments are.
I give props to you for trying though I saw your comments on there.
[quote]nascentbeing wrote:
They will eat us alive if we comment. There is just so much more going on in their head psychologically that any logical discussion we try to get into with them would be hopeless. It is not worth the time and effort required to deal with them, they are just too emotionally invested when it comes to a topic like this. For them, videos like this just confirms their old beliefs as that is what most of the comments are.
I give props to you for trying though I saw your comments on there.[/quote]
Yea, I noticed they like putting words into people’s mouths.
One obviously didn’t read all of my post, then got defensive and acted as if I was even talking about looks, when I wasn’t.
I know you’re right, but I just hoped maybe one overly fat person might read something sensible, and it might be the straw that breaks the camel’s back to get them moving in the right direction.
There’s also too much trolling and insults on there which is just as bad as the pro-fat comments.
[quote]orion wrote:
I think she has a point.
There are people that aren`t meant to be “thin”.
If they exercise and eat right they are healthier and more attractive than the average person, and that is enough for most people.
She is hardly a poster-child for Americas obesity epidemic.
She is even, dare I say it, attractive.
At least more attractive than a stick figure with fake tits and no personality.[/quote]
I agree. Most of the members of this site who do lose weight or get in better shape become bigots towards fat people. It’s fairly evident in almost every forum.
I lost close to 100 lbs a few years ago and understand how difficult it can be. I am in that “freak occurrence” category and I agree with her (and the statistics). It’s not easy. 99% of the people I know who have tried have failed, or had less than stellar results.
All this girl is talking about is self-respect. She isn’t of the “Fat Acceptance” group, or the NAAFP group, just the “quit beating yourself up” group.
Quit nitpicking the things she said and understand the entire message. It’s almost as if everyone has forgotten about the bigotry towards bodybuilders 99% of the world has. You would think you could relate.
[quote]SWR-1240 wrote:
nascentbeing wrote:
I know you’re right, but I just hoped maybe one overly fat person might read something sensible, and it might be the straw that breaks the camel’s back to get them moving in the right direction.
[/quote]
if you put a twinkie in the right spot, that’ll get the whole herd moving!
It’s not the fatties that piss me off it’s the dummies.
Ignorance knows no BMI. (but it prefers the comforting, corpulent folds of a fatty that can’t reach their own ass and the researchers who support them)
-chris
[quote]QuestForMuscle wrote:
It’s not because they eat too much, it’s not because they are big boned… it’s because they have the FTO gene, or worse 2 copies of the FTO gene. This is great, now all the fat people in the world can just blame it on their genetics. Maybe they can be officially recognized as handicapped if they have the FTO gene.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070412/hl_nm/obesity_gene_dc[/quote]
Call me crazy but didn’t that article basically just explain what everyone already knows? That it’s harder for some people to lose weight than others?
I mean if it’s the same in all realms of physical activities that some are more likely to excel than others, couldn’t that just as easily be applied to obesity?
People seem so determined to find out what makes them obese when what they need to emphasize on is actually doing something about it.
Knowing is one thing, but doing is much harder.
[quote]yorik wrote:
It’s funny, but with a positive attitude like hers, the girl in that video is probably the most likely to actually lose weight.[/quote]
I think the positive attitude is a mask for whats actually going on. You can tell when she talks about blaming everything on being fat. This is pretty much a plea “I wish I was not fat,” that has transformed into a plea of, “please let me and others accept my fatness,” because she hasnt the discipline to actually make the changes she wants.
I have known plenty of fat people. Many of them joke about it. But they do that to mask whats happening internally. None of them are actually comfortable with how they look.
My understanding is that the current research suggests that the contribution of genetics to fatness is very small by comparison to the contribution of behavior. Yet our increasingly obese generations are focusing on the genetic factors. I think its symptomatic of the other forms of laziness and unfounded sense of deserving people in wealthy countries seem to be cultivating.
[quote]adubswils wrote:
yorik wrote:
It’s funny, but with a positive attitude like hers, the girl in that video is probably the most likely to actually lose weight.
I think the positive attitude is a mask for whats actually going on. You can tell when she talks about blaming everything on being fat. This is pretty much a plea “I wish I was not fat,” that has transformed into a plea of, “please let me and others accept my fatness,” because she hasnt the discipline to actually make the changes she wants.
I have known plenty of fat people. Many of them joke about it. But they do that to mask whats happening internally. None of them are actually comfortable with how they look.
My understanding is that the current research suggests that the contribution of genetics to fatness is very small by comparison to the contribution of behavior. Yet our increasingly obese generations are focusing on the genetic factors. I think its symptomatic of the other forms of laziness and unfounded sense of deserving people in wealthy countries seem to be cultivating. [/quote]
Did we actually watch the same video?
And your “understanding” is wrong.
[quote]pookie wrote:
Our genes are pretty much the same as they were 50 years ago.[/quote]
Not only are our genes largely the same, the average weight difference (7#) between FTO wild type and mutant groups is abysmally small relative to the ‘Obesity Epidemic’.
Most of the people I see contributing to the epidemic would have to have at least five or six mutant FTO genes to account for their contribution.
[quote]eengrms76 wrote:
And your “understanding” is wrong.[/quote]
Wrong? Care to throw up a source saying obesity is largely genetically predetermined? Do you have a genetic test for obesity that works on any portion of the population? You have suspected genetic modifications that would quell the ‘epidemic’?
Because John Berardi, Lonnie Lowery, and Chris Shugart (as well as Bill Phillips, Mauro Di Pasquale, Dan Duchaine, Barry Sears, Robert Atkins, Jenny Craig, and many, many, many others to arguably greater or lesser degrees) have scads of non-genetic, behavioral and/or biochemical tests and interventions that seems to solve the problem for lots of people.
At first I agreed with your assertion of undue criticism, but posts like this one just convinced me SWR-1240 is right. You’re arguing against fact with emotion.
[quote]lucasa wrote:
eengrms76 wrote:
And your “understanding” is wrong.
Wrong? Care to throw up a source saying obesity is largely genetically predetermined? Do you have a genetic test for obesity that works on any portion of the population? You have suspected genetic modifications that would quell the ‘epidemic’?
Because John Berardi, Lonnie Lowery, and Chris Shugart (as well as Bill Phillips, Mauro Di Pasquale, Dan Duchaine, Barry Sears, Robert Atkins, Jenny Craig, and many, many, many others to arguably greater or lesser degrees) have scads of non-genetic, behavioral and/or biochemical tests and interventions that seems to solve the problem for lots of people.
At first I agreed with your assertion of undue criticism, but posts like this one just convinced me SWR-1240 is right. You’re arguing against fact with emotion.[/quote]
And you’re jumping to conclusions based on emotion. Just because I said the guy was wrong, doesn’t mean I believe it’s “largely genetically predetermined”. I’ve read enough conflicting studies to say no one actually knows for sure, and that everyone is different. Can you point out with a medical fact that genetics doesn’t play a reasonable sized factor? And when I say “medical” I don’t mean something an author here says, or someone peddling their latest diet trend. (I can’t believe you referenced Jenny Craig and Atkins… lol)
I also never said one couldn’t overcome their genetics. Again you’re jumping to conclusions. I was merely commenting on the dogma that the previous poster was saying.
Answer me this one- what is the difference between saying we all don’t have the ability to look like Ronnie Coleman (which is true), and saying that some have the genetics that make it difficult for them to lose weight? (notice I didn’t say impossible)
oh and feel free to keep putting words in my mouth.
[quote]eengrms76 wrote:
Just because I said the guy was wrong, doesn’t mean I believe it’s “largely genetically predetermined”. I’ve read enough conflicting studies to say no one actually knows for sure, and that everyone is different.[/quote]
Both can’t be true, you either know and can say he’s wrong, or claim not to know and that he doesn’t either.
The separation of Registered Dietician and Genetic Counselor to entirely different medical fields? The fact that the average immigrant gains weight to normalize themselves with the US average within about 15 yrs.? The fact that laproscopic, gastric bypass, gastroplasty, and other bariatric surgeries work?
Down Syndrome, Huntington’s Disease, Sickle-Cell Anemia, Cystic Fibrosis, these are diseases dominated by genetic factors.
Genetics may determine subtle nuances within weight gain/loss and account for outliers and anomalies (As in this study 38,000 people to find a 7# difference!), but behavioral effects (Ask any medical professional, diet and exercise) are, by far, the dominant factor.
Everyone can achieve body fat levels in the low teens, there is no genetic limiter that says it’s impossible, many would have to exercise exhaustively and starve, but they would get there.
The most recent Atkins study followed 311 pre-menopausal women, they had lost an average of 4.7 kg at the end of one year on the diet, nearly 150% of the effect seen from the FTO gene (assuming its effect could even be seen in such a small number of North American women). (JAMA Mar. 2007)
And not to be disparaging to any of the authors here, but Craig, Sears, Atkins, and Philips have a following that would be more representative of the total population and, consequently, more studies published on them. That’s more why they get included.
[quote]eengrms76 wrote:
Answer me this one- what is the difference between saying we all don’t have the ability to look like Ronnie Coleman (which is true), and saying that some have the genetics that make it difficult for them to lose weight? (notice I didn’t say impossible)[/quote]
Sorry forgot to answer you this one. What’s the difference? I’ll be brief;
1.) Everybody looking like Ronnie is a much more stringent line than saying everyone losing 20# or getting down to 10% BF, there are legions of people running around at 10% and lower and have been for eons. There is only one Ronnie, and he’s only been that big and shapely for ~8 yrs.
2.) Given the abstract “look like Ronnie” criteria, one can be rejected on the basis of genetically-dominated factors (Which is not the same as saying genetics determines who can look like Ronnie). Given the more concrete “achieve 10 (or X)% bf” people can clearly be rejected on any number of factors of which genetics doesn’t play the dominant roll.
I never said that you said impossible (you asserting words in my mouth), and I never said that everybody could waltz around looking like Ronnie all day everyday.
Merely trying to tell you that if factor X (diet and exercise) can be altered to the point where it compensates or overcomes for factor Y (which can’t even be altered), then factor Y is not the dominant factor. And in the case of exercise/diet vs. genetics, with lbm or %bf as the response, exercise/diet is, by far, the dominant factor.
[quote]eengrms76 wrote:
Did we actually watch the same video?
And your “understanding” is wrong.[/quote]
We watched the same video. Apparently Ive known more fat people than you.
I think your second statement has been addressed by lucasa
[quote]lucasa wrote:
eengrms76 wrote:
Answer me this one- what is the difference between saying we all don’t have the ability to look like Ronnie Coleman (which is true), and saying that some have the genetics that make it difficult for them to lose weight? (notice I didn’t say impossible)
Sorry forgot to answer you this one. What’s the difference? I’ll be brief;
1.) Everybody looking like Ronnie is a much more stringent line than saying everyone losing 20# or getting down to 10% BF, there are legions of people running around at 10% and lower and have been for eons. There is only one Ronnie, and he’s only been that big and shapely for ~8 yrs.
2.) Given the abstract “look like Ronnie” criteria, one can be rejected on the basis of genetically-dominated factors (Which is not the same as saying genetics determines who can look like Ronnie). Given the more concrete “achieve 10 (or X)% bf” people can clearly be rejected on any number of factors of which genetics doesn’t play the dominant roll.
I never said that you said impossible (you asserting words in my mouth), and I never said that everybody could waltz around looking like Ronnie all day everyday.
Merely trying to tell you that if factor X (diet and exercise) can be altered to the point where it compensates or overcomes for factor Y (which can’t even be altered), then factor Y is not the dominant factor. And in the case of exercise/diet vs. genetics, with lbm or %bf as the response, exercise/diet is, by far, the dominant factor. [/quote]
I agree with what you are saying, as science is on your side.
I don’t agree with the “by far” part you threw in there at the end. Nothing you’ve said supports diet to be any more than 51% of the equation, as it can overcome genetics (which I think I said previously).
[quote]adubswils wrote:
eengrms76 wrote:
Did we actually watch the same video?
And your “understanding” is wrong.
We watched the same video. Apparently Ive known more fat people than you.
I think your second statement has been addressed by lucasa[/quote]
Good for you. I’ve known plenty of fat people. Have you ever actually been a fat person?
Lucasa proved nothing more than what I had already said. There are no absolutes.
[quote]eengrms76 wrote:
adubswils wrote:
eengrms76 wrote:
Did we actually watch the same video?
And your “understanding” is wrong.
We watched the same video. Apparently Ive known more fat people than you.
I think your second statement has been addressed by lucasa
Good for you. I’ve known plenty of fat people. Have you ever actually been a fat person?
Lucasa proved nothing more than what I had already said. There are no absolutes.[/quote]
You sound like a reasonable man, so please quit this argument while you still have your sanity!
Does anybody know what this fat gene actually does?
Maybe when the gene is expressed…
It does absolutely no good to find a gene through statistical correlation if you don’t know what it does.